What do/don't you consider as being "Shaolin" ?

[norther practitioner]

Believing in the Southern Temple, and believing in what certain individuals claim happened at the Southern Temple are not one in the same

I was about to say the same thing, but I was out looking for that 1600 date.

[Sho-dan]

Consider this: If hundreds of years ago there were possibly thousands of Monks or "Shaolin practitioners", and they were scattered to the 4 corners of the world due to political reasons/prohibitions throughout China, theoretically, there could be "hundreds" of variations of "Shaolin" teachings that all have "Shaolin roots" and could make claim to teach original Shaolin, (I.E. Shaolin-Do).
It's almost a racist concept to say that people who don't wear monk robes can't be teaching original Shaolin. We may as well say that since there are no Italians in Texas then we can't make an authentic pizza. You can't ignore the fact that the longer that monks live/work/teach Shaolin in America the more "diluted" it will become, and therefore will never be "traditional". To "claim" to teach "traditional" Shaolin is acceptible. To claim that "they are the only one's" who can teach "traditional" Shaolin is a total illusion. To say that they are exclusive implies "control", everyone who has studied martial arts for any length of time knows that a sense of "control" is never entirely accurate. So, to have some random Monk, regardless of his age/experience, who "laughs" at another practitioners techniques/claims

[Sho-dan]

Continuation from my former POST: ... So, to have some random Monk, regardless of his age/experience, who "laughs" at another practitioners techniques/claims is absolutely "laughable". Perhaps we should question his sense of infinate wisdom?

[blooming lotus]

dude...I don't know exactly what you're referring to here, but laughing with another person on their growth into their journey is a better way of handling your observations than the straight out violence ( verbal or otherwise) than alot of unlightened or anaware people too often take


it's cute...I oten walk around thinking "that's the funniest thing I ever heard/saw"...as I watch people in their personal physcologies and delimas???

[Fen]

All you need to do is have Gis and belts -- lets not forget the big banner in the window saying "SHAOLIN KUNG FU" and you have the "REAL" traditional stuff!!! It's sad , but in todays MA world it's true! But do not feel bad, Shaolin Do'h has the name to.

~Jason

[Banjos_dad]

Tae Bo is not Shaolin.

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by Sho-dan
To say that they are exclusive implies "control", everyone who has studied martial arts for any length of time knows that a sense of "control" is never entirely accurate.

How about claiming to be "The Grandmaster of all Shao-Lin"? That's pretty exclusionary, huh?

[Judge Pen]

Originally posted by MasterKiller
How about claiming to be "The Grandmaster of all Shao-Lin"? That's pretty exclusionary, huh?

Grandmaster of what was considered shaolin at a particular moment in history as taught by various chinese teachers in Indonesia, then yes, fairly exclusionary.

That might not be clear from that title, but when you read the SD history, whether you believe all or it, some of it, or none of it, that's what they are saying.

[Fred Sanford]

it has taken on a flavor independent of most of the CMA practiced by the members here. It doesn't make it less authentic, but it does make it different.

If by independent you mean lacking any of the body mechanics that make those styles what they are, sure. anybody can buy videos and learn and imitate forms.

you bought the car but did you check under the hood to make sure it has an engine?

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by Judge Pen


Grandmaster of what was considered shaolin at a particular moment in history as taught by various chinese teachers in Indonesia, then yes, fairly exclusionary.

That might not be clear from that title, but when you read the SD history, whether you believe all or it, some of it, or none of it, that's what they are saying.

Well..................that's the lawyer in you speaking.

For all us laymen, without an * and a footnote, the word all is interpreted as universally inclusive; i.e. The gradmaster of everything that has to do with Shaolin....not just Shaolin-Do.

Besides, if that were the case and it was being taught to the students as such, they wouldn't be popping up on Russbo.com asking Doc why he doesn't have 10 pages dedicated to Sin The' on his website, or even here, for that matter.

[Judge Pen]

It's not the lawyer speaking, its just someone speaking with some perspective from within the style.

Fred, with what you have seen on the net, then I agree for the most part. Many teachers don't stress some of the individual stylistic mechanics like they should. Others do, but they are lost on their students. Also, Radhonoti's posts on Chinese martial arts as taught in Indonesia supports an argument that many of the mechanics are lost in the translastion. In America, that would mean we have degenerated another generation, but some of us do the best we can.

[Fred Sanford]

IMO, you SDers are grasping at straws and to be quite honest I don't know whether to laugh or throw up.

clearly some of you will never see the light. thankfully some have and have gone on to learn something worthwhile.

[GeneChing]

...or at least, that's what some of the monks say. Shaolin is the grandpappy of all martial arts, at least according to legend, so anyone can claim lineage to some degree. But, and here's the rub, not all of it is good shaolin. In fact, most of it is pretty bad.

Don't be possessive of the name. Be protective of the three treasures.

[canglong]

originally posted by Gene Ching
Don't be possessive of the name. Be protective of the three treasures.

It is unfortunate that there will always be only a handful of knowledgable Masters preserving those 3 treasures and a bus load of instructors unaware of there existance. Know your system know your time know your space and devote your energies accordingly.

[blooming lotus]

dude....I understand what you're saying but you don't have to be a "master" to practice the three treasures