Can a high school wrestler beat the average martial artist?

[8stepsifu]

wrestler vs. kung fu.

hmm.
High school wrestler vs. kung fu guy of as many years training.

Division 1 college wrestlers are like the Sifus of wrestling, A high school wrestler vs. a Sifu? No way. The Sifu would have a definit advantage. I know an awesome wrestler with legs like tree trunks that I'm sure could kick some serious ass. Another thing to consider is that at the last Tiger Balm Tourney in B.C. the Gold Medal winner of 18 and up blackbelt San Shou was a college wrestler. He just body slammed people until the couldn't go on. His expert advice to me (I came in third) was....Make your legs big......like trees. So guess what?..Thats what I'm going to do. I have a lot of respect for wrestlers and would sooner train with them than the average guy that claims to do kung fu. If I ever find a real kung fu guy/girl. That will be another story. Until then, I'll be busy making my legs...like trees [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img]

8Step Sifu

[GinSueDog]

You would be amazed by the abilities of a good wrestler, or boxer for that matter and on average the average wrestler or boxer against the average Kung Fu or karate stylist, the wrestler or boxer would be the clear favorite to win. This isn't always the case though as it really depends on the training and conditioning as well as the experience of the individual. The average wrestler or boxer is going to have ten times or more experience with actually using there techniques and will know the limits of there abilities that much better then the average Kung Fu or Karate stylist. This is simply due to the nature and level of there training. It could go either way though take a good San Shou fighter like Cheung Le for example would be able to more then hold his own against all but the biggest and most skilled boxers, why, because he has just as much experience with his techniques and abilities as the boxer and as good as the boxer is most likely has no experience in defending against the techniques often used in San Shou. It all depends on the training, I don't practice Kung Fu, but if Kung Fu was practiced with a more combative sport mindset using more intense training method you would end up getting something like San Shou which at its core seems to be very effective in it's environment.

"The grappling arts imply most fights end up on the ground...take them there. The striking arts imply all fights start standing up...keep them there. The mixed martial arts imply any fight can go anywhere...be ready and able to go everywhere."-a mix martial artist

[shimera]

one thing i think you constantly overlook is when boosting boxing and wrestling is that they are used to fighting ppl who employ the same skills. not ppl who employ a variety of technicques.

[GinSueDog]

Sir Kemera,
I think Bruce Lee once said something to the effect of, I could teach you a hundred techniques and make you a good fighter or I could teach you four or five and make you a great fighter. Boxers are simply good at what they do, but you could insert whatever sport or style that has the same level of training as a good boxing gym and get the same results, Muay Thai, San Shou, wrestling, Sambo, etc. The list goes on, they all have one thing in common besides being sports is that they all train at a higher level then the average martial arts studio.-ED

"The grappling arts imply most fights end up on the ground...take them there. The striking arts imply all fights start standing up...keep them there. The mixed martial arts imply any fight can go anywhere...be ready and able to go everywhere."-a mix martial artist

[vingtsunstudent]

if i can interupt(and probably fire things up)
what if a high scool wrestler blah blah blah.....can i just say that 99% of "what ifs" never happen.
when you mention young people (you should always remember that there are many more factors that figure in a fight)you should remember that a lot of them are not mentally as focesed as people who are a bit older & a bit wiser & have fought a few more times.
these things in themselves could mean a fight between young people could go either way whether they are trained or not.
vts
ps i heard that beach girl barbie could take out commando ken all because of that 1 month of grappling she learnt while on the beach in rio.
can someone please tell me if something like this could be happening in this sick & twisted world.

[shimera]

i wouldn't mind grappling with beach girl barbie...... whoops did i say that out loud?
-----

i think that i mentioned that if the average ma studio would train harder you would find that this arguement wouldn't exist... hehehe unfortuntly the average ma studio sucks, as far as whipping bodies into shape. luckily i haven't had to follow the average path.

[Longquan]

I wrestled in high school (was pretty decent).

I have taken kf at a small school in the suburbs.

If you take two 18 yr old males with the same height/weight/build and overall health after four years of wrestling and kung fu, the wrestler will win. Experience counts...

If the kf student fought competitively for a year after three years of training, he will win.

Kung Fu is technically superior but many exponents lack fighting experience.

"Whatever happened to
wildin out and being
violent,
Whatever happened to
catchin a good
old-fashioned passionate
Ass whoopin and getting
your shoes, coat, and
your hat tooken"

-Eminem "Marshall
Mathers" The Marshall
Mathers LP

[tsb]

Why is it that many of the responses seem to assume that wrestlers are able to take a well placed and timed punch, kick, or knee or elbow strike? I believe anyone can have a glass jaw, correct? Granted the level of physical conditioning, speed, and technique is high among wrestlers, they do not train to defend themselves against strikes, which gives the martial artist the advantage.

[SifuAbel]

Usually, I don't like answering post like these because the generalizations are endless. And, stereotypes are the most that people have to offer.


If we are going to talk about average, then lets identify what average is. Most times the average reflects the closest middle to a range. A middle range in most styles is a purple belt. A purple belt isn't the best exponent of a style. This person would not have the needed control for the match.

Are we then talking about the average blackbelt? Unfortunatly, in this the country of the McSchool and the 1 1/2 year blackbelt, the average blackbelt standards has taken a nose dive. If we are talking about a seasoned MA practitioner with real experience then I would say no; the highschool guy doesn't have a chance. If were are then talking about fighting against the lower rung hobby MAist then yes the high school guy will win. Although, he might not find it to be a walk in the park.

All this boils down to conditioning, who has got the better game and how many advantages can you stack in your favor.

Its dangerous to think your immortal.
sifuabel@aol.com

[uchi mata]

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaabbb bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbllllllllllllllllllllllll leeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee where are you?

[SifuAbel]

cccccccccccccuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuccccccccccchhhhhhhiii i

Why?o

Its dangerous to think your immortal.
sifuabel@aol.com

[yamato_damashii]

We already brought up the point that boxing and wrestling are martial arts (or, at least as much as judo and tae kwon do are, anyway...).

MY clarification, though, is--does this question refer to the "average MARTIAL ARTIST", or the "average GUY WHO TAKES A MARTIAL ARTS CLASS"?
Going to class three times a week, even having an umpteenth degree Black Scarf with Matching Handbag, does NOT qualify you as a "martial artist".

Jason C. Diederich
Pax Nobiscum

[Jabe]

Let pretend that "Adverage" in this case means that both fighters are equality trained in their choice of systems. They both train as much as the other, and as hard as the other. Now, lets analize each system. You must also consider that all have their weakness'.

Your boxer has two very deseptive strikes. The "hook" and the "upper cut", yet when they throw their punches the heel of the back foot comes off the ground causing them to lose power.

Your wrestler has to be able to shoot extreamly well to do anything and I think against a boxer they would most likely have no problem. But against an asain style martial artist they are going to have more trouble just for the simple fact that these types of defences are not thought of in "boxing" yet are in most asian style martial arts. (More rules in boxing)

Now, here's where the **** gets thick (pardon the french.) Keep in mind that I study Fung Fu.
(Very similer to in the Matrix.) Like I said, I think that a martial artist has a better chance over the boxer against a wrestler, accept the
Tea Kwon Do guys :-) because they leave room in their trainning for these types of defences. All it would take is a good stomp kick, dragon kick, pe chin, or sword arm to stop someone at shooting in on you. A boxers best move would have to be the upper cut.

All-in-all, it just matters on who is on the top of their game is that peticular situation. Beings that their all equality trainned and adverage.

[Tiger Moon]

Well you never know. To me i would say that i certainly don't think a wrestler has an advantage. But i would say the True Martial Artist could probably beat a wrestler with no contest, but you never know alot of things can keep someone from winning a fight, either mentally or physically. Like for instance a wrestler is very good at grappling type moves and if the martial artist is not great in strength or never emphasized alot on grappling moves, then i would say if the wrestler gets a hold of the Martial Artist then chances are they probably would be done for. A wrestler does empahsize alot of physical activities, but Martial Arts does as well if not even 10 times more. There are so many things to learn when being involved in the martial arts. But of course if you don't train hard day in and day out the odds would be against you, but the same goes with the Wrestler. So thats why there are so many things to seperate who wins or loses in my opinion, thats the main thing of fighting you never know the outcome till the fight is over. Anyone disagree???

--Tiger Moon--

[mild7]

Jabe,
are you sure that stopping a shoot would be that easy? [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]
I've never seen anyone stop a wrestler from shooting in with a kick. A punch.. maybe.

I suppose if it's a sloppy wrestler who does'nt shoot in fast and low.. then your stomp kick could work. So there is some truth in what you say. We're talking not-so-good wrestlers here right?