total solo training

[Falcor]

You've all heard of stories of folks/masters who go off into the wilderness for months/years and practice and meditate and practice everyday and come down from the mountain with awesome skills. Kyokushin founder Mas Oyama was said to have done this for 2 years. What do you guys think of such stories? not to detract from Oyama's greatness - becasue he was one kick-ass martial artist irregardless of how he became that way - but usually you would think that training with a partner with whom you can practice and test ideas out with, and who can provide resisitive training would be the best way to progress in one's art, no? I'm sure you can become very highely conditioned in body and mind, but what about actual skills? Are these stories of uber-solo training mere exaggerations and tall tales, or can one really develop great skills by going at it alone like that?

[Ikken Hisatsu]

from what I gather mas already had the ability, and he went into the wilderness to perfect his physical strength/dexterity and perfect techniques, which I guess you dont need a partner for.

that and I imagine when you train that hard out its difficult to find someone who is your equal.

[Liokault]

Or is it to help create an image of a warrior? The way I see it lots of eastern "masters" like to create images that they can sell/trade off and Mas Oyama is not the least amongst these.

For example I have heard lots of people be very impressed by Mas Oyama killing bulls with one blow, but I have also heard of lots of people thinking that the bulls were weak sick looking and very small to start with (not like Spanish fighting bulls).

Sitting by your self up a mountain sounds cool, mystic, hard which I think is the point.

[SevenStar]

I wonder what that did for his actual fighting ability. Assuming that he sparred, drilled with a partner, etc. then I would think his skill decreased some, even though he may have gotten stronger. That was an unnecessary trade off, considering he probably could've done the same training at his home.

[David Jamieson]

Oyama was a disatisfied shotokan practitioner.
He wanted to change sport karate to reflect the reality of conflict on a truer more closer approximation of real conflict through the art of karate and through tournament fighting.

He succeeded with the creation of kyukoshinkai Karate which is probably what it says it is "the strongest karate".

All martial arts were created at some point by someone. That someone may have been building on what they knew in bits or pieces or expanded upon their military experience or life experience of having to defend themselves.

The point of Kungfu is that within you, there is a seed of greatness and with time and diligence, you can nurture that seed into a strong being that is you, with kungfu. Whatever the means of that nurturing and growth is up to you, but it is important to understand one thing. Don't kid yourself about the reality of teh situation and know where you need work and what needs toeb wrked upon.

All your teachers and experience in life contribute to who you have become. But who you are is all you. You can either be one in the masses making small contributions, or you can be one in the masses making larger contributions.

cheers

[Meat Shake]

"training for years at 6am for 2 hours, alone, hard, hot or cold, tired or busy, cerainly tested, and forged, "

Tis also what seperates MAists from half assed hobbyists.

[Vash]

Here here.

[Vash]

I kinda train solo, when I'm not healing from a pain-in-the-@$$ injury.

I only get to learn in-class two hours a week, although when I start practicing again, I'm gonna talk my instructor into setting up an advanced class.

Anyway, I'll be training six days a week, whenever I can, in-between helping teach and doing college studies.

After all, who needs a job?

[IronFist]

Good thread.

[Liokault]

EmptyCup

it would be even FUNNIER if the student learned an art that was never tested and taught it to another who in turn taught it to another and continue to this day not ever being tested.

You mean like ...um....kung fu?

Kung Lek

The point of Kungfu is that within you, there is a seed of greatness and with time and diligence, you can nurture that seed into a strong being that is you, with kungfu. Whatever the means of that nurturing and growth is up to you, but it is important to understand one thing. Don't kid yourself about the reality of teh situation and know where you need work and what needs toeb wrked upon.

LOL you ever SOUND Canadian on the internet


Seven Star

I wonder what that did for his actual fighting ability. Assuming that he sparred, drilled with a partner, etc. then I would think his skill decreased some, even though he may have gotten stronger. That was an unnecessary trade off, considering he probably could've done the same training at his home.

I think that the point of the mountain thing is that once you have perfected the physical thing the next dimention is phycological.

[fa_jing]

Hey! Maybe Mr. Oyama had a large number of bulls for sparring partners. Actually I do think you could train on your own and make good progress - especially if it means you are off somewhere isolated-- but of course 2 years would be plenty for that.

[Falcor]

Well, I didn't really mean this thread to be about Mas Oyama. I only brought it up as an example. ANother example is from CMA. Northrn Mantis was supposed to have been developed by Wang Long after seeing a mantis fight a cecada. One version of the legend says that he studied the mantis and copied the movements (and apes for footwork) and then went to a temple and trounced everyone. Another version says that he studied a mantis and apes, then practiced his innovations with a training brother, and then went on to trounce everyone else. The point is that he was supposed to have trained in the mountains on his own for a length of time all by his lonesome, and then tested his skills/arts out. So the question still stands I guess - can you really improve your skills by yourself? I am of course assuming that one starts out with a good foundation and is already skilled to some degree before going off and doing the mountain thing.

I've found that my physical conditioning, power generation, and my technical grasp and theoretical depth may increase with solo training, but things like timing and distancing can actually degrade without another person to train with.