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Originally Posted by Phenix
Hendrik, since you joined this conversation, I am still curious how much you actually learned from your sifu, and/or how much he actually knew since you seem to even know the 4 ways to issue power in your lineage. Why don't you know this, didn't you complete the system under your sifu, or did he now know either? Doesn't it make you wonder what else of YK WC did you not learn?
What chi sau is, or isn't, or is, or wait, what is it..: http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/foru...2&postcount=90
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You love to keep speculate isn't it?
It is not four ways, it is four phases within a force line type power generation process , a fusion of Emei 12 zhuang with fujian white crane .
As shown in this utube ,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5ln...=youtube_gdata -
Many knows how to handle it today.
Starts From
Navin or Kungfu fighter , Jim Rosalendo, Sergio, Jack.....any many many wcners who I have shared.
Jack in the above video is a student of sifu Robert Chu.
And also sifu Robert Chu is with Jack at my home, discussing different type of YKSLT power generation, including the type as in the utube above, and Jack always help me to be my partner in many times he is visiting me.
Today, these four phases can be describe with the seven bows handling, as simple as that.
This is 2014, no longer 2003.
The basic details of the four phases has been sorted out and formulate in the formulae 2014.
Last edited by Hendrik; 06-19-2014 at 08:03 AM.
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I personally am not concerned or interested in speculation of what might or might not have happened hundreds of years ago but in what we have now. Hendrik mentioned things being lost for over 60 years? I was glad to inform the group that actually nothing has been lost as Hendrik thought and that his guess on that particular part was not in keeping my teaching from ku sifu from whom he got the infomation.
Hendrik I am not really interested in your research and speculation on the origin of WC or to discuss or argue continually repeating the same thing. I wish you well in that and hope you find peace and fulfilment in your endeavour and findings.
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1. As usual beside making up stories, twisting words.....trying to make yourself , an empty shell middleman, important
What do you offer?
Nothing.
2.
Sorry, it is not the other way around, I don't use other Wck lineage art to explain YKSLT.
The following page is punished in new martial hero Hong Kong and ebook co author by Wayne and Myself.
Take a look , Wayne wrote it by himself with his free will using the Emei 12 zhuang or the out come of my YKSLT emei research to explain his SCWC kuit or example ( which I am have no idea) .with the movement in his SNT set and the emei 12 zhuang move
Last edited by Hendrik; 06-19-2014 at 08:24 AM.
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1. You are free to have your opinion.
And I present facts as they are, not a speculation, but existence facts.
You can choose to face it or ignore what I present.
2. I sincerely invite you to share in public utube what you consider not lost.
That way we all can learn from you.
Is it any utube of your lineage addressing this four key words issue? Doesn't Ku sifu has a utube showing his teaching on this subject?
It will be nice to share with the Wck community so we can compare notes.
3. Since you posts your view on me, I have my right to post mine to clarify my view with evidence isn't it?
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HA HA HA!
You are cheeky one.
Of course you met Ku Sifu in Singapore you made the journey to meet him.
You actually may believe the letter was from the Third Party was sent on Ku Sifu's behalf but it was not and it was also not from Ku Sifu directly you of course have your own opinions.
Like said Hendrik I am not interested in all this nonsense, pericived lies and arguing or no interest in attacking you. I have mainly stayed out of it and have not brought anymore counter arguement and accussations because i think this whole affair recently has been childish. I will leave you to continue.
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Speculate? You said yourself, you only knew 3 of the 4 'key points in issuing power' in YK WC and "Thus, I have heard. Swing is swinging. I guess there is someway to use momentum...... pendulum-ing? Just my guess."
It sounds like you are the one speculating! I am not really interested in a 13 second clip that doesn't answer the question of where you finally learned this info. And no idea what Jim, Bob or Jack or anyone else's name you throw into the mix has to do with my question.
** Correction, I mis-read what he actually wrote. Now that I look at it again, he didn't really know any of these points in his own system, assumed they have been lost for 60 years and was just guessing at one of them! my mistake. I am glad FongSung is here to clarify that nothing has been lost in the Yik Kam system. Apparently, Henrik just didn't learn everything.
In case you forgot, 10 years ago you were talking about this information being lost in YK lineage:
"In my understanding, in my lineage, for passed 60 years not too many know these points, understand these key points, and the structure according to the points. to be able to generate it.
Thus, might be another lost art ......."
First you say it's lost and you guessed at what it all was. Now you now say it wasn't key points at all - now it's 'phases' and it's simple. Ok, if it is so simple, you should have no problem answering my question.
So, I'll repeat:
In 2003 you did not even know these 4 key point existed and you were guessing what it may have been and that the info was lost for 60 years. Where did you get the information in the past 10 years if you didn't have it in 2003?
From your YK Cho family sifu? And why didn't you get it from him in 2003?
Or are you saying you got it from Jim Bob Jack?
It's a simple question.
Last edited by JPinAZ; 06-19-2014 at 06:43 PM.
What chi sau is, or isn't, or is, or wait, what is it..: http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/foru...2&postcount=90
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When are you going to show us how Emei 12 Zhuang Wing Chun works in Ultimate Fighting ?
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1. As usual beside making up stories, twisting words.....trying to make yourself , an empty shell middleman, important
What do you offer?
Nothing.
2.
Sorry, it is not the other way around, I don't use other Wck lineage art to explain YKSLT.
The following page is punished in new martial hero Hong Kong and ebook co author by Wayne and Myself.
Take a look , Wayne wrote it by himself with his free will using the Emei 12 zhuang or the out come of my YKSLT emei research to explain his SCWC kuit or example ( which I am have no idea) .with the movement in his SNT set and the emei 12 zhuang move
相似 ---> Similarity
Hendrik, plase don't twist any wordings from my Chinese writing and GM Lee Kong Writings to YOUR TWISTED ENGLISH MEANING.
I think you need to find the meaning of 相似 from a Chinese dictionary. The same wording GM Lee Kong also mentioned as he saw your fake SNT, and kuits.
In the thread "Sergio Report on White Crane" created by you, I had clearly mentioned that I had a lot of misleadings by Hendrik, because of my poor English. You have a lot of different English terminology on Kung Fu, I never learned before. Compared to ones we commonly use in Chinese, hard to get the true English meaning.
相似 , it means in English 'Similarity'. It is the common daily term, not kung fu terminology. As what GM Lee Kong said 相似 , he found some similarity of White Crane only, not exactly same as White Crane.
In this NMH paper, we are trying to talk about Emei and SCWC relationship. Of course, as a researcher, it is very common to use them to compare. Try to bring something to each others to relate, to reason, to anlayse and to conclude. In this paper, we just bring out the relationships only, they look like similar to each other only from the form playing.
If the paper related to White Crane and SCWC, the same approach will bring out from White Crane technqiue to compare with this SCWC snake 9 rototation movement. I can also bring the similar technqiues from White Crane to compare with these 9 rotoation. There are also similarity with White Crane.
I don't know any Emei, and you and your partners are working with emei since this century. How do I know any Emei before ? Just you come to me, staying with me for few years to take SCWC stuff. At the same time, you try to make SCWC as your emei like and mislead me a lot on the Emei story. Also, the ebook was suggested by you to co-author it. Today, of course, I fully understand why you like me to co-author it because you like to have SCWC to support your Emei Hendirk ykwc SNT dream. For what ? $$$$$$.
Hendrik, your emei snake slide worm movement is very common in other kung fu styles, such as White Crane, They are not calling snake slide, but they call chained joints power, one joint by one joint to transmit the power and finally becoming a composite one.
Hendrik, you are very good to twist, or even to change the words to suit your Emei fake SNT. Rememeber in your kuits, you change from 6 bows to 7 bows. In my SCWC kuit you change my '麟' to '鱗' to suit your emei snake dream.
Honest speaking, I still don't understand why you said the 7th bow was invented by you in 2012 in San Jose. hahahah.... Among all the internal arts in ancient China, don't you thinks our ancestors in different internal arts, they never think of the 7 bows. I sure all the joints in our body they had studied deeply. Of course, one of joint invloved, the composite force will be bigger. Why only 6 joints are used by our ancestors in differnt internal arts, not 7 bows. More, you never answer my your force from the ground, how it works. Don't just show someone video out as your answer.
Also, I don't understand why you change the 1850 to 1848, for what ? Like what you did before, you change scwc 1890 kuit to 1894 kuit intentionaly. Keith(KPM) do you remeber? Now, it was totally deleted. OK, till today, I still use 1850, now 1850 I use it, and you use 1848. ok!
Can you really do your fake SNT smoothly in one tick without any stop, think, and play? Even you can play today, I don't know it is fake from GM Cheung, Bor suk and GM Ku Choy Wah, Wah suk youtube videos. More, even you can play today, I believe no body know whether it is what you claim the original one or not, because as what I said in your deleted thread, in the past, today and in the future, only Hendrik Santo is doing REAL wck, because only he knows Emei and his ykwc SNT.
More, you never tell the world who is your Emei teacher ? How your learn your Emei ?
In your 2003 posting, you really show that you did not get the full system from your sifu Cho Hung Choi. In the last 20 years, I beleive you ask a lot of others in the internet , try to learn what you didn't learn from your sifu.
Please also tell the world, in the last few years, did I ask you anything about your YKWC, your SNT form and your Kuit? Of course not, I have my full SCWC system, why I need to ask and to learn yours. However, you took a lot SCWC stuff.
That's why today, you never mentioned any about '1850', any about 'SCWC'..... In the last few years, you did a lot.... Right!!! You scared today, try to avoid 1850 and SCWC.
Last edited by ccwayne; 06-19-2014 at 09:26 PM.
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thanks for sharing. in that case, where does the snake and crane from Snake Crane Wing Chun come from?
Hendrik says its Emei and Fujian White Crane, if you disagree, what do you think it is, or what is it according to SCWC legend?
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Hendrik said, his ykwc SNT is fusion of Emei and White Crane. Then, where the Emei snake come from ? Where are the White Crane come from ?
SCWC is split from the Sae(snake) Hoc(crane) Kuen in the Redboat period. Sae Hoc Kuen has only one 108 long set called SNT. The role of SCWC after splitting is clearly stated in SCWC Lim Tau Song to deal with the traitors only.
Where the snake and crane in SCWC come from? Chunner, you need to ask where the snake and crane in Sae Hoc Kuen or the 108 long set SNT come from ? May be you go to ask Hendrik, but may be the same emei and white crane answer, and I cannot answer you.
Something we cannot get the answer, why we need to go further. In reality, I never see one long set 108 SNT playing, then how come I consider where the Snake and Crane coming from the SNT. Furthermore, I never ask where the emei snake come from or where the White Crane come from.
AS what I mentioned in I and Hendrik paper, the pictured above, I clearly state that there are similarity only. Also, GM Lee Kong also metioned similarity only. However, I wouldn't like what Hendrik paying all his effort to push you believe.
In Snake Crane Wing Chun, we know our role in our history and why we need in low key in the last 160 years, not open to public. Hendrik knows that and he spent time on me for few years. Robert Chu knows because he came to me and baiseed to my sifu. for what ? Sergio knows, and he like to promote and make videos on SCWC, and asked for baisee too. Why ? because we are really from one long set splitting 3 forms set.
However, do I in high profile to come out saying we are the authentic? No. because I understand today people have their thinking, and their own judgement. Time changes things a lot. Today, it is Yip Man wck world, and wck evolved a lot as well.
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Splitting to 3 forms set, all are still retained, especially Kung part.
In the past, Hendrik had said bad on SCWC, and after splitting, there are no kung part, just on the application part.
Please see the 3 forms of scwc, you will find the kung part in each form. Hendrik doesn't know the kung part in SCWC only. How come our ancestors splitting to 3 forms set, the most important kung part totally dropped. Totally ridiculous!!! The first time I met Robert Chu with his brother two years ago, I had mentioned to him about the kung part of SCWC.
I believe you don't know how to decode the Lim Tau Song, there already show you where the kung part is. Ah! I know even you don't know how to decode, you just change the wording there to make yours.
Today, I understand why Hendrik always mentions only his hendrik ykwc SNT with Kung only, even Cho family does not have, because he is going to promote his Hendrik ykwc SNT with Robert Chu, Jim Roselando and Sergio, after leaving SCWC.
Hendrik, today, you hear about Sae Hoc Kuen. As a researcher, how much you know the Fine Jade hall. How much you know the Weng Chun Hall. Why Sae Hoc Kuen is chosen to deal with the tratiors. There is no more chance for you to know what's happending in Redboat era, especially in Tai ping period.
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Simply put ... No one believes you Hendrik. No one trusts your views as they are full of your own twists, turns, backflips and contradictions. You have been proven to have lied on more than several occasions. So why do you still write here? No one believes you Hendrik. Take it elsewhere and let the real people discuss Wing Chun!
Ron Goninan
China Fuzhou Zhenlan Crane Boxing Australia
White Crane Research Institute Inc
http://www.whitecranegongfu.info
A seeker of the way
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Hendrik, plase don't twist any wordings from my Chinese writing and GM Lee Kong Writings to YOUR TWISTED ENGLISH MEANING. ---------
Wayne,
I post what Sergio had post to the public openly.
It is Sergio public posting on the result between Gm Lee Kong and him.
What you post based on your view doesn't count. You are not there when they meet.
Unless there is an public statement made by Gm Lee Kong himself with his signature .
What between Gm Lee Kong and Sergio is their personal issue which got nothing to do with you.
In this NMH paper, we are trying to talk about Emei and SCWC relationship. Of course, as a researcher, it is very common to use them to compare. Try to bring something to each others to relate, to reason, to anlayse and to conclude. In this paper, we just bring out the relationships only, they look like similar to each other only from the form playing. --------------
That is your writing.
No one force you to write it.
You are using my Yik kam SLT related Emei 12 zhuang information to decode and explain your SCWC SNT Set and Nim Tao Ko kuit.
Instead of I am using any of your information, as you always claim falsely.
I don't know any Emei, and you and your partners are working with emei since this century. How do I know any Emei before ? Just you come to me, staying with me for few years to take SCWC stuff.
At the same time, you try to make SCWC as your emei like and mislead me a lot on the Emei story.
Also, the ebook was suggested by you to co-author it. Today, of course, I fully understand why you like me to co-author it because you like to have SCWC to support your Emei Hendirk ykwc SNT dream. For what ? $$$$$$. -------
1.
Since the day Sergio connect with me,
your mind is focus in how much Sergio made in his teaching,
I decide to share with Sergio equality for free, as other wcners in the world, for the reason of to share a data point of red boat Wck , a culture heritage of Wck which belongs to every wcners.
I don't have school, I don't have anything to sell, and I am self sufficient to tell the honest facts of my inheritance.
So, please keep your own speculation for yourself.
2. As for your opinion on
At the same time, you try to make SCWC as your emei like and mislead me a lot on the Emei story.
Again,
That is your writing.
No one force you to write it.
You are using my Yik kam SLT related Emei 12 zhuang information to decode and explain your SCWC SNT Set and Nim Tao Ko kuit.
Instead of I am using any of your information, as you always claim falsely.
Realistically,
aren't you the master of your own art A grandmaster ?
How it is so that you can be mislead so easily to write article with my information?
And what can you offer?
When you yourself is not sure about your own art and using my information to decode yours?
Hendrik, your emei snake slide worm movement is very common in other kung fu styles, such as White Crane, They are not calling snake slide, but they call chained joints power, one joint by one joint to transmit the power and finally becoming a composite one. -------
You are always free to have your opinion as you like.
You are not me and not practice and developing the type of art I inherit.
And from your description here , you do not know the differences between emei snake slide and fujian crane shake handling.
So, you simply don't know mine art.
Since many Emei 12 zhuang experts have confirmed mine practice in writing and signature. So, that is what count.
Honest speaking, I still don't understand why you said the 7th bow was invented by you in 2012 in San Jose. hahahah.... Among all the internal arts in ancient China, don't you thinks our ancestors in different internal arts, they never think of the 7 bows. I sure all the joints in our body they had studied deeply. Of course, one of joint invloved, the composite force will be bigger. Why only 6 joints are used by our ancestors in differnt internal arts, not 7 bows. More, you never answer my your force from the ground, how it works. Don't just show someone video out as your answer. ----------
It is simply, you are practicing other type of art and not familiar with force flow handling of my art.
Can you really do your fake SNT smoothly in one tick without any stop, think, and play? Even you can play today, I don't know it is fake from GM Cheung, Bor suk and GM Ku Choy Wah, Wah suk youtube videos. More, even you can play today, I believe no body know whether it is what you claim the original one or not, because as what I said in your deleted thread, in the past, today and in the future, only Hendrik Santo is doing REAL wck, because only he knows Emei and his ykwc SNT. ------------
Fake or real , the Wck researchers of the present and future will address it. I leave it for them to decide.
You certainly always are free to speculate anything you don't know.
More, you never tell the world who is your Emei teacher ? How your learn your Emei ?
In your 2003 posting, you really show that you did not get the full system from your sifu Cho Hung Choi. In the last 20 years, I beleive you ask a lot of others in the internet , try to learn what you didn't learn from your sifu.--------
Again, you are free to speculate all you like on things you have no idea.
Please also tell the world, in the last few years, did I ask you anything about your YKWC, your SNT form and your Kuit? Of course not, I have my full SCWC system, why I need to ask and to learn yours. However, you took a lot SCWC stuff. ---------
You are welcome to tell that to the Wck researchers ,
let them made an investigation is my art got anything to do with SCWC or it is a totally different system based on Emei 12 zhuang and Fujian White crane.
That's why today, you never mentioned any about '1850', any about 'SCWC'..... In the last few years, you did a lot.... Right!!! You scared today, try to avoid 1850 and SCWC. --------
Months ago
I have made a public announcement in this forum and Facebook groups , to isolate myself totally from SCWC information. Since then, I walk my talk, be it in public or private.
I am more then sufficient to share facts data of my lineage inheritance.
Finally,
I really suggest you make a YouTube to show how you practice your SNT,
let the Wck community and the Chinese martial art community see and let them compare your art and engine with mine.
Last edited by Hendrik; 06-20-2014 at 03:28 PM.
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1.
Nope. I have never said :
bad on SCWC,
Attached in what we agree in the ebook.
Based on facts.
2
And also, in the other chapter written by Wayne, by evidence in the attached photo
Wayne is using Yik kam SLT kuit related Emei 12 zhuang six core elements and three level of development to decode his SCWC YJKYM , SNT.......etc. That is Wayne's writing. No one force him to write that.
And it is Wayne using Hendriks YKSLT information , instead of the other way around as Wayne always claim.
Last edited by Hendrik; 06-20-2014 at 12:45 PM.
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