Ignore my old punching thread. New one (pic)

[IronFist]

I hate to be the d!ck who posts the same thing in two different forums, but other people have done it before.

Alright.

I guess I made my last thread too confusing, so I made this one easier.

If you are using a wc straight punch to break a board (or a head), in which position would your hand be upon impact?

Please note that I'm not talking about any angles of the hand when viewed from the side. I'm ONLY talking about when viewed from above, as in this image.

So pick: is it 1, 2, 3, 4, or "other," and if so, please explain.

Thanks. And please don't answer questions other than the one I've asked. I'm not trying ot be a d!ck, I just want a straight forward answer.

[sticky fingers]

on your other thread I thought you were asking about the bending the wrist vertically (thats why I asked for the side angle pic) but now I know you were asking about the horizontal angling of the wrist.

from your new pic the correct angle is pic 2

[IronFist]

Thanks.

But when I do a wc punch I can't get it to work with that angle. If you're facing your target and punching to their centerline, the wrist can't be in that angle because your shoulder is outside of your centerline and your whole arm has to come in. So it would be more like pic 3. If you wanted to maintain a straight forearm-wrist, then it would have to be like pic 4 (ouch).

Now tell me how to fix this problem.

[anton]

I can see your dillema.
edit: Changed my mind... I am assuming you are punching with your body facing the wall, without any significant twisting of the torso/shoulders. In this case I would say somewhere between 3 and 4 would look correct.
Also, your thumb placement looks a bit weird to me.. I bend it in more, so that the 2nd knuckle of your thumb touches your index finger between the second and third knuckle.... I guess to an extent all this stuff is just a matter of what feels comfortable to you though...

[Ikken Hisatsu]

mmm yeah your thumb does seem a little too close to your knuckles. dont want it to hit something.

as for the original question- not being a WC practitioner Im not sure. I do know however that in every style I have seen and studied, a straight inverted punch is done like pic 2. but im not sure what your dillema actually is- I can do a WC centerline punch with a straight forearm and wrist. could you post a pic of your upper body to give us an idea of the alignment (since you do wing chun this is probably something Im doing wrong and not you, but Its worth a check anyway)

[MaFuYee]

move closer to the target

[rogue]

Good thing WC is a simple art.

[rubthebuddha]

ironfist -- halfway between two and three. one and four would both yield a broken wrist if hit against anything substantial.

[IronFist]

Guys, the reason my thumb is in a weird place is because I took the picture with the board on the floor (see the carpet behind it?) and I had to twist my body around to be able to look through the camera lense while still trying to keep my fist on the board. Then I rotated the image so that my fist was facing upward instead of downward. It's not actually there when I'm punching for real.

I'll get some upper body pics in a few minutes so you guys can see more of what I mean.

[IronFist]

(I posted this same reply over on the wc forum.)

Are you guys sure it's wrong? I've got a bunch of examples of people using the "incorrect" bent wrist method.

If we look at this picture, it looks like he would hit the board with his pinky knuckle first. Ouch.

Yip Ching likes to punch that way, too. (Even tho Phil Redmond said it's wrong).

Sifu Grados does straight punches like this as well. I've attached some frames at the bottom of this post from a Sifu Grados video taken from here. His wrist is anything but straight when viewed from above. And yes, these images are from a fully extended punch.

Look at the guy in the middle of this logo. It's kinda small, but what's that? Wrist turned outward!

This guy, too!!!

I've also got various videos of WC teachers demonstrating the punch like this. I guess I could take pictures of the TV screen. I can't hook the video up to my computer, though.

So in the mean time, please explain why all these people are doing it wrong? Are they all conspiring against me in an attempt to make me do it wrong?

[Becca]

Don't meen to butt in... Sorry...

IronFist, there are different types of "strait punch". The guy you said would hit with pincky is using an inverted strait punch. Can't speak for anyone else, but I tend to use it when I'mm gooing to miss to the outside of my target. I find it helps me make contact with first 2 knuckles better, in this sinario. Hope that helps a bit.

[IronFist]

Originally posted by Becca
Don't meen to butt in... Sorry...

IronFist, there are different types of "strait punch". The guy you said would hit with pincky is using an inverted strait punch. Can't speak for anyone else, but I tend to use it when I'mm gooing to miss to the outside of my target. I find it helps me make contact with first 2 knuckles better, in this sinario. Hope that helps a bit.

^ I know. Alllllllllll I'm talking about here is wrist angle. The only reason I mentioned that pinky guy is because his wrist is absolutely straight, but he's going to break his pinky if he hits a board like that.

[Becca]

Oh... Sorry. I knew I should not have butted in. As far as angle then: I'd say 2 to be tech., but will have a bit of a bend like 4 at impact.

[rubthebuddha]

ironfist -- you're missing one important fact: each of those punches are at full or near-full extension.

that may not say much alone, but as you're learning to understand the wing chun punch, you need all the elements. at the end of the punch, some flavors of wing chun teach a bit of wrist motion -- akin to c0cking the pinky forward -- to add oomph to the punch. it may not sound like much, but when done at even minor speed, it is not difficult to feel the difference.

think of the punch this way:

1. your fist starts facing straight toward your target.
2. it continues to face your target travelling straight toward it as your elbow extends.
3. as your fist hits the target, your wrist c0cks, extending the bottom portion of the fist through the target.

understand this -- the pinky knuckles do not start out further forward, as that would leave the wrist fully flexed in one direction (this, if it had to go further in that direction, it'd tweak the wrist. the wrist does this motion at the point of contact. <edit> that c0cking of the wrist continues through the target and the wrist finishes a little wonky looking. now look at the pictures, particularly of gm yip -- had he a target, at that point of elbow extension his hand would have been "through" the target. thus, his wrist is a little flexed up. </edit>

think about it this way -- each joint in the body can add or subtract power. weak ankles, thighs and knees give you no base or stepping/turning oomph, weak hips do the same, weak shoulders allow for no whip, weak elbows (think triceps) don't allow for much pop on your forward extension, etc. it's all about mechanics. you learn the basics to be able to hit, then you learn nuance so you can use little things like a wrist motion to add oomph.

like i said, not all flavors of wing chun do this, nor does wing chun have technical dibs on it.

this explain a bit more? if not, pm me and i'll do more there or IM.

[IronFist]

^ Again, I'm not talking about extending the bottom of the fist through the target. I know all about that. I'm talking about the fist and forearm, when viewed from above, not being in a straight line. Wrist c0cked up or not has no effect on this angle from above.