Shuai Jiao and ground fighting

[Mika]

In Finland - as far as I know, at least - there is no Shuai Jiao, so I cannot ask anybody in person nor can I go and observe any Shiao Jiao sessions myself.

Some people say Shuai Jiao is closer to modern day Judo than any other well known martial art. In some sources, however, I have noticed references to ground fighting applications akin to BJJ and others.

So, my question is this: does Shiao Jiao include any ground fighting techniques?

If it does, some elaboration would be appreciated.

Thanks

//mika

[truewrestler]

are they on the ground?

[norther practitioner]

No, that is a mythical style... they're floating on a qi cloud.

[truewrestler]

you are interrupting my knock knock joke

[Unmatchable]

http://www.bullshido.net/forums/show...&threadid=8144

quote by mikus

Robert W Smith apparently was able to throw every shuai jiao practioner around with ease. I believe he was a 2nd dan judo blackbelt. I don't think he was a particularly great one, either. Oddly enough, he is in love with certain CMA's (he currently teaches taiji and maybe xingyi, which he seems to like much more than judo), but thinks that Shuai Jiao sucks. The people he grappled with were the guy who did this demo's peers. He might've even grappled with this guy himself.

Here is one by MiloNYC

Shui Chiao is just one of a million folk wrestling styles with almost all the same moves found in arts all over the world. What's amazing is that by applying kung fu training methods to it the Chinese have managed to make it NOT WORK. How the hell do you make wrestling not work? It's wrestling for christ sake. Well never practice with a resisting opponent for one. Shui Chiao is a great piece of evidence of what happened to Kung Fu over the generations. Practical moves practiced with a don't hurt/resist/question/embarrass teacher method, stop being practical or even recognizable really fast.

[CrippledAvenger]

Yawn. 3.2

Unmatchable indeed. I call shennanigans.

[lkfmdc]

I can attack this last post...

1. Robert Smith is, uh, well, full of (edited) --- let's say donkey poo

Robert Smith apparently wanted to study Shuai Chiao and got tossed out by Master Chang after he found out that Smith was also studying with Cheng Man Ching.

Smith says some truly stupid things in his books about SC, basicly because he wanted "revenge".. he says SC has no "o soto gari" but that is "diagonal striking" and is like the 3rd technique taught!

Smith doesn't like the falling method and then goes on to relate how he used a judo break fall and "thank g'd" he only broke his arm!!!! Having used SC break falls when being thrown on WOOD FLOORS, I know they are better methods. If Smith had learned them, he wouldn't have broken his arm

Smith wouldn't have said ZIP to Chang....

2. I don't know who "MiloNYC" is but from what he wrote, I bet he studied the art under this city's biggest fraud, ie he learned crap and didn't realize that it was only because his teacher SUCKED

[truewrestler]

lol ...and what does that say about the rest of Kung Fu?

[CrippledAvenger]

Shuai Chiao story time, the breakfall edition:

As some of you know, Water Dragon and I work out with the local MMA guys. One day after practice, we were doing freewrestling on the mats, and WD nailed me with a pretty sweet Diagonal Cut (a nasty O Soto Gari for you Judo types). I went into a Shuai Chiao breakfall, and as I was picking myself up off the floor, our trainer comes over.

He says, "You know, next time you fall, fall like this," doing a Judo breakfall. WD explains to him that we fall the way we do because the larger shoulder and leg muscles absorb the fall and take a chunk of the shock. Miguel, (our trainer) thinks about it for a minute, and then turns to us and says, "Oh, okay. That'll work too."

This is why I like the vale tudo crowd. If it works, they're cool with it.

[Chang Style Novice]

He shoulda tried it himself.

[Unmatchable]

Originally posted by CrippledAvenger
Shuai Chiao story time, the breakfall edition:

As some of you know, Water Dragon and I work out with the local MMA guys. One day after practice, we were doing freewrestling on the mats, and WD nailed me with a pretty sweet Diagonal Cut (a nasty O Soto Gari for you Judo types). I went into a Shuai Chiao breakfall, and as I was picking myself up off the floor, our trainer comes over.

He says, "You know, next time you fall, fall like this," doing a Judo breakfall. WD explains to him that we fall the way we do because the larger shoulder and leg muscles absorb the fall and take a chunk of the shock. Miguel, (our trainer) thinks about it for a minute, and then turns to us and says, "Oh, okay. That'll work too."

This is why I like the vale tudo crowd. If it works, they're cool with it.

Depends who it is. I had a Muay Thai guy tell me not to snap my kick when in fact in Muay Thai you have to turn it in mid air and I wasn't really snapping it yet he still insisted I was doing it wrong and was a karate guy when I never took Karate.

[Water Dragon]

Originally posted by Unmatchable


Depends who it is. I had a Muay Thai guy tell me not to snap my kick when in fact in Muay Thai you have to turn it in mid air and I wasn't really snapping it yet he still insisted I was doing it wrong and was a karate guy when I never took Karate.

www.ironheartcrown.com

Go ask who Miguel Torres is over on mma.tv

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by Unmatchable


Depends who it is. I had a Muay Thai guy tell me not to snap my kick when in fact in Muay Thai you have to turn it in mid air and I wasn't really snapping it yet he still insisted I was doing it wrong and was a karate guy when I never took Karate.

That's because the mechanics of the two kicks are different. whether he's coll with the snap kick or not, he's not really showing you MT if he's not showing you the MT way to do it...

[Mika]

Thanks y'all for the replies!

Now, WD and CA, you say y'all grapple with the local MMA guys. What would your reasons for this be?
(Just to be clear about my intentions, I don't like asking tag questions, so I let you answer it in your own words. I am NOT questioning your decision, I am just trying to get to the bottom of this).

So, how similar would y'all say SJ is to BJJ (or other related arts)?

Thanks

//mika

[Water Dragon]

Simple Mika,
Miguel is maybe the best fighter in my area, so I learn what he has to teach.

-edit-

I actually started going to Miguel for his Muay Thai, the BJJ is just icing on the cake.

I was looking for a sparring partner and ended up at the local BJJ school as they have some MMA guys there as well. So I hook upp with this lil 135 pound Mexican (I'm about 185) and we go 50's (half power). We lock up, I throw him with neck surround. We lock up again and I get a raise. Miguel then proceeds to beat the living 4hit out of me for the next 1/2 hour straight. How could I pass up an opportunity to learn from someone who thrashed me so thoroughly?