purpose of putting tongue to palette

[dwid]

You're awfully defensive there, I guess it's a byproduct of your cult programming.

[backbreaker]

Not at all. You're awfully offensive(literally). LOL at cult programming. Paranoia

[dwid]

Not at all. You're awfully offensive(literally). LOL at cult programming. Paranoia

I'm literally offensive, as opposed to what, figuratively offensive?

Your programming is strong. Perhaps someday the aliens will come and take you on their ship, but only if you practice the Falun Gong every day.

[Brad]

That brings me to an interesting question. Do you all always breathe in the nose and out the mouth in meditation or do you keep the tounge placed on the palate and just breathe from the nose?

I allways just breath through the nose. In Karate I was allways taught to inhale through the nose, and breath out through the mouth, but I didn't think it helped any

[Brad]

[Judge Pen]

In tai chi and pa Kua I always breath through the nose, but Hsing-Ie I was taught to breath through the mouth. I was just curious if this was taught specifically to different practitioners.

[Repulsive Monkey]

With my limited understanding thats whats wrong with Falun Gong, it cut and pastes different qi-gongs together which is usually a very dangerous area to get into. Different qi gongs do different things, its like acupuncture or even western medicine, you have to make sure that two different treatments don't contradict or contraindicate different things as that can have health stealing properties instead of health giving.

I personally would either stick to either Taoist or Buddhist qi gong but not mix them. Thats asking for trouble.
Religion and Qi gong are two different things however by products of both can indeed be the same. One can be religious and do qi gong but when they merge one must be extremely careful.

[backbreaker]

Actually the reason I posted falun gong is because it is one of the safest qigongs to learn. It is not overly complicated, does not use mind diredtion or mental gymnastics, and does not emphasize breathing techniques.( may originally had them, but they're not important and more complicated) I doubt the exercises are contradictory and the process is explained zhaun (rotating) falun. I think it's mainly the original falun gong system with a bit of daoist styles and flavor integrated. Also some exercises are probably in both styles of qigong. Mantras are used in both schools. The heavenly circuit exercise is surely not exlusive to one style or school. I have seen the exact movement( heavenly circuit) in section 2 of Dayan wild goose style and learned in Damo gong an exercise which is externally slightly different( only slightly) but the enrgetic purpose is the same( actually the purpose in these styles is to acheive a pure body, but not yet develop gong until later).

I think the movements are grounded and safe, and will circulate energy without running into any problems in practice. My qigong teacher teaches Kunlun wild goose qigong, Damo gong, and I've been shown and learned a little Quan yin qigong( has sitting postures with the hands very similar to falun gong). We even do a falun gong rightous thought practice posture after wild goose. No one's had problems. Wild goose mudra finger postures are very similar anyways. He has a wild goose group for healing at a church and has over 50 students. He is very successful in healing illness, way more than any acupuncturist or anyone in the area, some people hold him in higher regard for dealing with illness than their regular doctor. At that same church he or another advanced qigong student lead a falun gong group of over 20 or so. It's good. It's definately not the first style to cross train and integrate the two schools ( chen style taiji comes to mind for one). I just think it shows the expertise of Li Hongzhi to understand how to combine the two systems and where the similarities and differences are. I think it's mainly the buddhist( saints)
falun gong system being taught. At some point the 2 schools strive for the same thing and there are much more similarities than differences IMO. How far away are the mountains of wudang, kunlun etc. from the mountains of Tibet? How do you know thre is not a common source far back enough in time? Anyway IMO a mish mash of styles could be bad, but falun gong is no mish mash. I think it's " those qigong shams and fake masters" who teach mental gymnastics and focusing on feeling the qi, who don't come from a real system, and know nothing beyond qi theory and think qi can cure illness or give them super strength, who say it's cut and paste because it looks that way to them because they don't understand the real theory.

[backbreaker]

I don't think breathing is most important. I've seen a Yoga style which when breathing out, shapes the mouth and toungue like a circle. I've seen a section of Quan Yin which breathes out through the mouth similarly. I've learned a breath called cleansing breath, which is reverse breathing, breathing out with your mouth in both taijiquan and Damo gong. Have not seen a Daoist method that emphasized breathing.

[dwid]

Actually the reason I posted falun gong is because it is one of the safest qigongs to learn.

Safe for the body maybe. Safe for the mind and spirit? Don't know, probably depends on the individual, but certainly not the safest.

8 pieces of brocade is very easy to learn, and very safe for both the body (I have done it while recovering from major surgery and had no problems) and the mind (no leaps of faith are really required).

If you're a firm believer in qi theory, no advanced form of qi gong is safe to learn without an experienced instructor.

[backbreaker]

In my experiece as you get more advanced the exercises become of shorter duration and become less complicated( beginning exercises can and should be simple too though). At first you train the body to become strong with longer duration standing postures and exercises with more movements, and more advanced practices will use simpler sitting postures of shorter duration to work more on spiritual aspects likethe pineal gland and strengthening special qigong abilities. It can't be complicated though. You yourself have to go high level, the teacher can only point the way

[Gangsterfist]

This is just what I got from my sifu and from reading books on qigong. My sifu teaches us qigong along with our kung fu. We train two main styles of kung fu with my sifu. Yip Man wing chun, and yang family taiji. We also do grappling and some mma stuff just to get a feel of whats out there. We practice qigong in all of our form work by either doing budhas or Taoist breath. You can also do yoga breathe, but that is a bit more advanced and harder to do while moving and easier while stretching (just my opinion).

Chi is generated from your dan tien which is a few points below your belly button. It flows mainly up one meridian that goes straight up your chest, from the center, over your head, down your back, round your crotch and back up to the dan tien. Then there are other meridans that are perpendicular to this one and branch out through out your body. These all connect together and help chi flow through your body. Pressing your tongue to your pallet (with out using tension in your tounge or jaw) is suppose to connect the main meridian around your body. Also you will collect saliva in your mouth. This is refered to as the pool of heaven I believe. When you do form work or work out, or stretch you will build up saliva in there. The saliva is suppose to have nutrients in it that your body releases. Swallowing it after a light work out or form work helps replinish energy in your body. You can also swallow it when your mouth gets dry.

Another thing, if you train kung fu, and keep your teeth closed, but not clenched and your tongue to your pallet it is structurely benefical. If you get hit in the jaw you are defensively a better structure and more than likely will not bite your tongue.

If you guys are more interested I suggest some reading by Dr. Jwing-Ming, here are some links to his stuff.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...072214-5150273

http://www.ymaapub.com/authors/authordetail/author1.php

http://www.dvdretailshop.com/Shaolin...940871637.html

[backbreaker]

If I'm not mistaken, energy can actually flow along the microcosmic orbit in both directions, Usually I think you start out up the spine down the front. When you start bringing the large orbit in the arms and legs into play I think sometimes the small orbit can reverse and move with the lage orbit which can go down the back, and down the outside of the legs, up the inside of legs up the body to the inside of the arms, up the back of the arms and around the face. Anyways touching the tongue to roof is just another manifestation of the principle of connecting acupoint to create a reaction like plugging in a plug or a line of batteries maybe.( Like you might align an acupoint in the hand with an acupoint at the hip area)

[Repulsive Monkey]

If you're qi gong does NOT use mind direction/intent then its pretty useless to be honest. I've never heard of Taoist Qi gong ever using Mantras so I don't where you came up with that one?

This sounds throoughly dodgy to me, reversing the micro-cosmic circulation can be a potentially dangerous act unless you've mastered the flow of qi to a high level, otherwise you can creates some bad side-effects by pushing qi up the stomach and front, like vomitting as it goes against the natural downward perystalsis function of the stomach. It can also create anxiety for the heart and lungs by raising heart rates and pressuring lung capacity.

Breath is important but not straight away but eventually it is key in any qi-gong, but more imporatnt than that was what was so readily disgarded and that's mind intent. How on earth can you get qi moving if the mind doesn't direct it???
Its not that as you advance you get shorter simpler sessions of qi-gong as such, it's more that the effort is less because it becomes a natural function, and in fact you don't shorten the session they actually get longer but occur without such an initial structured framework.

From what I have read of Li Honzhi it sounds like a total mish mash, I don't want to scorn what I don't practice, but why put him on a pedestal, when there are other more enlightened and older practictioners who do undertsand qi theory exceptionally well yet I'm sure are the kinds of people you would slight.
I have met a few Falun practitioners and must saya they stand alone in character and do not seem to be the peace loving liberal and open people that their practice professes them to be. They seemed very much like Fundamental Christians to me.
Of course I am convinced that they may be a misrepresentation of Falun Dafa initiates in the whole.

[backbreaker]

" ng hung ba gua sung, yum dog leung ma dong, jiao ji jo jung sum, beet so do sum jung, "( Spelt wrong I'm sure, and my teacher has a cantonese accent, actually I'd be interested to know the english translations) That'a a small exerpt from the 4th section of kunlun dayan qigong wich is a bagua circle walking set. Mantras are an important part of the style. The mind does not direct qi. The gentle postures and movements, mantras, and especially mudras( the fingers are like antennas) and even breathing methods in some styles do the job. Focusing your mind or obsessing on the energy itself or " qi sensations" is asking for trouble( even if you are getting some vitalisation). There is no need to rush or focus on the qi.

Okay, there is a difference in my definition between using the mind to direct qi to parts of the body and having a correct mind . Leading the qi with the mind around the body is either totally incorrect or begginning level in a legit ancient system. Higher cultivation has no mind intent as the mind is barred from heaven. Complete visualization is more correct. Seeing, feeling, smelling, tasteing, hearing, or sealing them off and having an attitude of kindness and compassion interally and externally is more correct than moving "qi" around your body. Visualising yourself as a compassionate giant as tall as the sky is correct, moving "qi" around the body to organs and stuff I think is not. IMO visualisation or mind intent is not mental gymnastics. Even in taiji you are taught to be smooth, light, agile, and be focused mentally. Not to direct qi to different areas with your mind; that's how people run into problems, it leads to being obsessed with qi and the vitalised sensation.




Dry heaving and qi gong problems? I think this is specific to training methodology. Of course I would think if qi rushes up the center meridian too quickly that's exactly what will happen and you're right. But I've learnded multiple stlyes which induce the qi to flow slowly and evenly upwards the center path to the throat. My understanding is that qi can flow both ways at more advanced levels, from inside to outside, and microscopic to macroscopic. I'd bet that it's the context and training methodology which goes wrong.( such as focusing on the qi, and not the cultivation systems)