Wu style, why is it the lean there backs,

[bamboo_ leaf]

bob, said it better.

leaf

[backbreaker]

I have the impression TaichiBob consistently is on the correct. I like the analogy of the rice bag(looseness,sinking)
and I find the idea of compression useful. I think movements should be small and should affect the opponents structure and balance( like turning the waist and sinking). The way I learnred taichi there was no obvious leaning in the appearrance of the form. Maybe some slight internal leans or different subtle alignments. I think if you use strength while pushing forward while leaning without getting your opponents structure, IMO you would be open to a knee to the face. Leaning might have applications but I don't really know them

[Shooter]

My instructor explained leaning like this; "If you lean on a wall and it falls, you don't"

From the book, Yang's Secret Family Transmissions; "I'm not a meat-hook! Quit hanging on me"

[bamboo_ leaf]

if you look at what TCB wrote it’s not a lean more like the physical expression of the wave.

Next time you push and are uprooted think of how it felt. Was it a local push or did you feel as though the floor dropped out, or did your intention to push suddenly fall into a hole.

Shooter’s analogy of the wall supports the idea of not using force develped from the bones.

[count]

Originally posted by delibandit
Just my two-cents worth. I think the lean that you mention is characteristic of the Southern Wu Style players. Northern (Beijing) Style Wu keeps the back straight. I don't know the reason for the lean, but it's possible that this characteristic developed as a result of an earlier disciple's bad habits and was imitatated by his students, eventually becoming the accepted standard in that branch of the Wu family. This was the explanation given by my Northern Wu style teacher.

UMmmm, No, but I'll give you a penny change and keep one cent for the effort.

[Paul_E]

I've never practiced Northern Wu but I was under the impression that one of the big names in that branch is Wang Peishing. Someone posted a clip of him on one of the major forums doing tai chi and he clearly leans. Also, you can find plenty of pictures of Wu Jianquan doing the lean so the hypothesis that it was a bad habit picked up from a student is also unfounded. I am no where near proficient at southern wu but the way we practiced it, the lean would occur as a result of the straightening of the back leg (the ox plow stance). That way you could more easily feel the transfer of force from the leg to the hands or shoulders, etc. Once the back leg bends or the there is a postural change the back becomes perpendicular to the ground again.

Paul

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

The leaning you describe is a linear result of rear leg extension.. this is evident in the "wave-like" vertical motion of the spine.. the general assertion is that the same leg extension can concurrently produce a horizontal twisting of the hips/spine/shoulders so as to increase the kinetic energy of the push/strike in geometric proportions.. of course, the coordination needed to orchestrate such graceful power is quite elusive and requires much practice..

Be well..

[Paul_E]

"the general assertion is that the same leg extension can concurrently produce a horizontal twisting of the hips/spine/shoulders so as to increase the kinetic energy of the push/strike in geometric proportions"

Could you elaborate on this explanation. Better yet, I'm not ashamed to ask you to dumb it down for me. Man, I can't even tell if you're supporting or arguing against the lean. Sorry

Thanks

[woliveri]

If anyone is in the SoCal area and interested. I found this guy to be one of the few "real deals" I have ever come across.


http://www.wustyletaichi.com/

[crumble]

Originally posted by Shooter
My instructor explained leaning like this; "If you lean on a wall and it falls, you don't"

From the book, Yang's Secret Family Transmissions; "I'm not a meat-hook! Quit hanging on me"

I agree with this answer the most so far. (Although I think Evolution Fist has something to say, I just don't get it yet ??? E-fist, could you take another stab at explaining?).

I was told that the lean is the final position that comes from a forward punch or push that uses body wieght and gravity. In full speed it would look similar to a hsing i punch. (Of course the form is done at less than fighting speed.)

The lean isn't a lean in the sense of "resting on" or "hanging on". The back leg counterbalances the torso so that the wieght is going straight down into the foot. (Similar how in taiji sword forms the leaning thrust forward is balance by the rear leg straightening backward).

-c