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Thread: tan sao

  1. #1

    tan sao

    one is not to use tan sao, the way that he {GRa--} is useing it.
    the hook punch will come in and knock him out.
    I don;t know how good or bad, he is but one thing for sure he is
    not doing the tan sao, as it should be done. MUST PUT BODY,AND
    ELBOW INTO IT.

  2. #2
    huh?
    who'se not doing the tan sao right? gracie?
    in what context?
    i think you lost us.
    Ecce nunc patiemur philosphantem nobis asinum?

    what transcends the buddha and the law? Cakes.

    "Practice is better than Art, because your practice will suffice without art, while the art means nothing without practice." - Hanko Doebringer, 14th century

  3. #3
    oh ok,
    this is a thread that was supposed to be a post on the grados thread but you clicked new thread by mistake?
    ok i see sorry!
    Ecce nunc patiemur philosphantem nobis asinum?

    what transcends the buddha and the law? Cakes.

    "Practice is better than Art, because your practice will suffice without art, while the art means nothing without practice." - Hanko Doebringer, 14th century

  4. #4
    Join Date
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    wales
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    Hi,

    Tan Sau is useless against a hook - a proper tight boxing hook or jab, and not these drunken haymakers you see being drilled at soo many classes.

    It has to be biu against a hook / jab / cross - it covers a much wider range, is structurally stronger and there is little chance of leakage over the elbow like in tan sau.

    Test it in sparring - I gurantee whenthe pressure is on the biu wil come out !!!!

    Stu
    Ip Ching Ving Tsun in South Wales - www.swanseavingtsun.com

  5. #5
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    Wrong time and space?

    Although I have not seen what it is Cheito Ito is talking about, from what I understand of Tan Sau and hooked-punches, Tan Sau is not compatible with those attacks due to space coverage.

    Tan Sau:
    I agree with using the Biu Sau as a very simple and effective way to secure the head area against a hook, rather than a Tan Sau. The shape of the Biu Sau is more complimentary to that of hooked-punches.

    Tan Sau, as I know it (gotta have a qualifier!), is used to redirect a direct/forward challenge against your centerline - like from a WC Punch where the elbow is down, shearing its attack to the side as it passes using a corkscrew motion in the forearm.


    Biu Sau:
    What type of Biu Sau are you using? I am aware of two types:

    1. a biu sau that thrusts forward from center (a forward nature).

    2. a biu sau that thrusts towards the shoulder (a sideways nature).

    Is yours used to intercept (offensive) the punch or redirect (defensive) it? Is the elbow of the biu sau locked out, angled down, slight flex in it? How high is it, nose heigth, shoulder heigth, forehead heigth?

    Structure:
    The Biu Sau I train has a slight flex at the elbow, with the elbow angled down (slightly sunken) so that my body position can support the arm structure (from a geometric standpoint). The knife-edge of the arm should be facing outward to be used for contact surface and steering.

    Energy:
    I have also trained that the Biu Sau should have "Loi Lau Hoi Sung" (retain what comes, escort what goes) aspect to it. Reason one, to connect their energies to yours. Reason two, to transfer energy from you to them. In a word, harmonizing. Stiff-arming and over-extending a Biu Sau is counter-productive to maintaining your time and space. Rather, utilize an accelerated burst; a spontaneous energy pulse, to disable the incoming attack. This is akin to attacking the attack with a whipping quality to it.

    Of course, Biu Sau may not be the only answer, but I thought it would be nice to add in my take about the Biu Sau.

    Cheers.
    World Hung Fa Yi Wing Chun Kung Fu Association

    "Obey the natural laws and principles of the universe." ~ Grandmaster Garrett Gee

    "Education which stops with efficiency may prove the greatest menace to society... We must remember intelligence is not enough. Intelligence plus character - that is the goal of true education.” ~ Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

  6. #6
    Join Date
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    wales
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    Hi Savi,

    The biu against a hook comes from the dummy before you go into po pai section. The biu starts from a wu sau and projects out at 45 degree with biu shape being quite rounded.

    The last time my Sifu, Master SamKwok did a seminar for me, we tested this in detail with my srudent Mark ( 6ft 2 , 16 stone, ex-boxer) throwing full tight hooks and jabs at Sifu kwok - the biu worked every time.

    Tan is pretty worthless in this situation.

    Regards, Stu
    Ip Ching Ving Tsun in South Wales - www.swanseavingtsun.com

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2004
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    North East of England
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    Not sure if I agree with you guys on this one. I have been able to use Tan to defend against a hook punch while sparring.

    I think it all depends on you body positioning when you execute the Tan in correlation with your opponents positioning.

    You aren't just puting your arm out to stop the strike you are turning and using your body behind the motion. We normally use this in conjunction with a similtaneous strike.

    I am not on about using this technique against scrubs. My main training partners are all experienced MA'ists. We all have some form of Muay Thai and boxing background too. So we aren't just throwing wild haymakers.

    At the end of the day though, each to their own. Use what works for you!
    The best form of defence is attack!

  8. #8
    Join Date
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    Austin. Tx
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    if we are gonna start making bold claims and such about certain things not working and blah blah blah. then let's look at a few things:

    Shifting tan sau? as the hook puncher (classic right angle boxer hook) twists his trunk for the strike the hook punchee shifts the line and matching the angle of the strike....

    is it a biu against a hook? or is it a go bong sau? Think about it.

    why not step outside and cover, why not kick? why not...? because every situation is different and if you limit your kung fu because of something that someone said on the internet, then it's just going to be weak.

    Why not train the "wrong" technique? Your kung fu should be able to work at all levels and that means training the "wrong" stuff as well.

    and don't forget the easiest, if somone even a trained boxer uses a hook punch, step to center with a solid horse and put them off balance, their fist will end behind your head while you have a big opening to go through. Basic tsui ma-- step through the center.
    Aaron Vyvial

    "If you want to be good, you will be"

    Moy Yat Kung Fu Academy

    training video

  9. #9
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    Savi: it is my understanding, for what it is worth, that the biu sau you describe is Go bong sau, because it is the same as the one i use. benny may change it up and give new names but it's still Moy Yat Kung Fu. To most everyone else it would look like a biu sau but the difference is the energy applied. go bong sau as the name implies has bon sau energy. Biu sau has a hard nature like the lan sau.
    Aaron Vyvial

    "If you want to be good, you will be"

    Moy Yat Kung Fu Academy

    training video

  10. #10
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    Originally posted by Vyvial
    Savi: it is my understanding, for what it is worth, that the biu sau you describe is Go bong sau, because it is the same as the one i use. benny may change it up and give new names but it's still Moy Yat Kung Fu. To most everyone else it would look like a biu sau but the difference is the energy applied. go bong sau as the name implies has bon sau energy. Biu sau has a hard nature like the lan sau.
    Sound like a Go Bong sau to me as well. We use it in TWC
    Sifu Phillip Redmond
    Traditional Wing Chun Academy NYC/L.A.
    菲利普雷德蒙師傅
    傳統詠春拳學院紐約市

    WCKwoon
    wck
    sifupr

  11. #11
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    Uh, no.

    I'm sorry I don't have too much time at the moment to discuss in detail my thoughts, but what I have trained in Biu Sau and Go Bong Sau are two completely different "techniques" in structure, nature and energies.

    I'll have to reply back in more detail when I have more time... sorry.
    World Hung Fa Yi Wing Chun Kung Fu Association

    "Obey the natural laws and principles of the universe." ~ Grandmaster Garrett Gee

    "Education which stops with efficiency may prove the greatest menace to society... We must remember intelligence is not enough. Intelligence plus character - that is the goal of true education.” ~ Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

  12. #12
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    Originally posted by Vyvial
    Savi:benny may change it up and give new names but...
    Aaron Vyvial

    "If you want to be good, you will be"

    Moy Yat Kung Fu Academy

    training video

  13. #13
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    FWIW, I just read an article in IKF magazine about a guy (forgot his name already) who combined a few things from some philipino system w/ his wing chun and dubbed it: Extreme Wing Chun (seriously thats what he calls it). Now, when reading his article some things he adapted from this philipino system is using the guarding hand (the wu sao) as extra support to the more extended hand. So if someone were to throw a right hook at you, you could step in and shift + tan sao + support your tan sao with your wu sao, and block the hook with the left arm. I have never tried it, nor do I think I would comitt that much to a hook punch. Its also probably not centerline theory either, but I have not seen pictures on read how it was described. When I get home I can pick up the magazine and post this guys name and maybe a weblink if I can find one.

    However, I think footwork and positioning is key to avoiding hooks, and going for the weak side.

  14. #14
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    Originally posted by Vyvial
    Why not train the "wrong" technique? Your kung fu should be able to work at all levels and that means training the "wrong" stuff as well.
    I'd rather not waste my time. Better to use that time to better the techniques.

    if somone even a trained boxer uses a hook punch, step to center with a solid horse and put them off balance, their fist will end behind your head while you have a big opening to go through.
    Behind your head where he can hit the back of your skull. Yes, easy thing to do - very risky too.

    Problem with Moy Yat kung fu: Very dangerous - but not to the opponent. Maybe too much training of the wrong stuff.

  15. #15
    So, Went did Tan Sau stop? Stop by itself? stop by the coming force? stop by...... Hmmmm

    when did your tan sau stop in you SLT and in real life? Hmmm

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