"Light Gung Fu"

[David]

Originally posted by CLFNole
I am constantly amazed as to the supernatural things people believe regarding kung fu. Kung fu is about hard work and dedication there is no magic involved.

Well, let's see what kung fu is made of: -
wei kung - external
nei kung - internal
shen kung - spiritual

Shen kung does include magical thought and practice. This ties in with the account on the train which was a guy who'd trained his magical will.

Rgds,
David

[CLFNole]

All styles have internal and external. I don't divide sytles into internal and external. The all aim for the same result but move along different paths.

Choy lay fut for example (my style) begins hard/external and at the higher levels involves becomes soft/internal. A so-called internal style such as tai chi starts soft/internal and becomes hard/external. True mastery is a balance of each, techniques that are 50% yin and 50% yang (it's very hard to find masters that have perfected their skills to this level).

I am not saying that through dilligent practice that certain feats cannot be accomplished, however, that being said alot of what you see out there today is fraud. To jump high is one thing to jump from standing over a 12' wall well lets just say I would think its a story that evolves as it is passed down. A lot of tai chi people think that they will glow through practice thinking that chi is something you can just throw around like a football. What many people think of a "internal" is perfected movement and proper breath control.

Lets take the story of Ku Yu Cheong and the killing of the horse. I would venture to guess that the story didn'y play out quite exactly like its told with him hitting it once and it dropping dead on the spot.

Peace.

[Jook Lum]

Many things could be possible but most of it it B.S.. There are
a lot of nuts out there and a lot of gullible people and when
brought together they can both claim to have done and seen
almost anything.

I saw some wackjob on t.v one time who claimed he could levitate and said he learned from some mystic in tibet. He sat
on the floor cross legged and began to flex all his muscles at once and hop up and down like an idiot, at most a half an inch of the floor and when done claimed he was still tuning his body
into the forces of nature so he could not float very high yet.

I also saw a guy who claimed he was a Chi Kung Master and
was the only American to be taught these skills outside of
China then he stood in a horse stance in front of a lit candle
and said the Chi would extend from his hand and put out
the candle. Then he moved to about two feet from the candle
and took a deep breath in and pushed his arm out while blowing
all the air out of his mouth at the candle to put it out, just like
a birthday cake and most people stood an clapped and whistled
like he really had some great power.

Pretty sad!!!!!!!
Anyone else have any stories. I know a few more I will add
if others are interested.
JL

[fiercest tiger]

I seen some pics in a real kung fu mag from honbgkong from the 70's and a guy is walking up the wall like a lizard but again we dont know if he ran up it or started just walking up it like a geko?


so many tricks in martial arts its hard to believe any of them.


FT

[Glimmer]

David - You accept the lesson on skeptism as being a patronising one, and then reaffirm your slight belief in another person's story of someguy levitating up from a train seat?

Lol. Are you being ironic or something? Because up until now, every one of your posts (on this and other forums) have shown you to be a very intelligent and articulate person. I can't seem to match this with this train seat thing you keep mentioning.

Hynotists and magicians sometimes use water to give the appearance of sweating, this matched with real straining (sending blood to the head etc) often gives a sense of authenticity to what they are doing i.e. like they are performng a real physical feat. Of course they are not, it is a trick, they are messing with your perception.

When David Blaine first did his levitation trick, I quickly learnt how to do it and showed peope at work - some went crazy and asked me about meditation and stuff, they started following me around. It was nuts.

I expect the guy on the train was just trying out his latest trick/stunt he had bought from the local magic shop.

[CLFNole]

The thing with this whole thing is if there was a sifu out there you could teach "light skill" and how to jump onto rooftops and walk on walls don't you think he would be making a fortune from all the kung fu "wackos" out there wearing the shaolin temple robes with the flutes on their backs. You know the ones I am talking about you see them at the tournaments looking like they just came from a Star Trek convention.

They would flock in droves to learn. So if they are out there they are truly missing their opportunity to get rich.

Peace.

[David]

Oh yeah I forgot everyone is for sale.

That proves the case against anything that hasn't made it onto cable.

[Chin Chung Cao]

I have to agree with David on this one, not everyone is in it for the money. The late Si Gung, Lum Sang See, if he really had the light skill's so many claim to have witness, I dont think you could have "bought" them from him. Lum would have never taught a non-Chinese for any amount of money. Look at the mess Jook Lum has become since his death. Perhap's his reasoning not to teach any but Chinese was well founded, American student's have tarnished what ever good he did for the system while he was alive. There are many good teacher's out there that would rather have one good student to pass their art along to over a pile of money. It's called integrity.

[CLFNole]

I agree with you whole hardedly, however look around even on this website you have tapes of people teaching "iron crotch" for god's sake. So while I don't agree alot of people are "for sale".

For sale or not I still don't believe in the supernatural of kung fu. People can belive what they want. But really explain to me what levitation has to do with kung fu, oh wait maybe he had profound expertice in "fom pei kung".

Peace

P.S. Chin Chung Cao as far as the story you referred to about jumping down from a 2nd story is a bit different and more believable. There are ways to land and roll that allow this.

[Tit Sa]

Was Lum Sang the only one to know the "light skill"?

I seriously doubt that. If you talk to every style practitioner they would have a si gung, sifu, si bok, grand poobah....who has light skill and every other skill you can name.

If light skill is true, then Lum Sang couldn't be the only and final person to know it.

So, logically the next question is where is the other people who know it?

Well, your answer is that they don't show it because of integrity.

So, logically again, then you are assuming that everyone who knows it HAS integrity then. Otherwise we would see it in the Olympics.

Ok......knowing what we know about corrupt police, politicians, physicians, judges,....and all these other occupations/positions that have power mixed with money; not to forget about the pride and power of the Chinese Government and Chinese people themselves, if "light skill" is demonstrated in the Olympics.

I ask you does it seem rational to assume every old KF master has no ambition for fame, fortune, money,....?

If your answer is yes, well...then I have a "Big Bridge" for sale, just for YOU!

[Chin Chung Cao]

No one ever said that Lum Sang was the only person to learn light gung fu. Only that the few people alive that actually practiced it were dying off. I seriously doubt that any are alive anymore. I only pointed out that there are many out there teaching that money means very little to. No one said that all teacher's are incorruptible, only that many dont put money ahead of finding a good student. Stories of Light gung fu have existed in the martial art's for a long, long time. And like most storie's have some bases in truth. Unfourtunatly most, if not all, who practiced this type of gung fu have passed on. Just another small part of the whole that has been lost down through the year's. CLF Nole is correct, there is a lot of nonsense being passed off as "real" gung fu, and there will always be the blind that will buy into this crap without doing the research. If there is one thing I've learned over the years it would be not to pre-judge anything until you have the opportunity to check it out for yourself.

[Glimmer]

"..they don't show it because of integrity"

Unfortunately, if this was the case, we'd never know what kung-fu masters are capable of or not...same with so called spirital masters who can apparently materialise objects (see the hundreds who claim this ability in India).

More important question is, why do you want to believe in such a thing? Ask yourself, why would it be important if it was true?

I accept that 'light skills' might be possible, although accounts of how light these abilities make you is the real bone of contention.

Saying that yogees or spiritual masters can levitate and use their mind to go outside of conventional physics, well this reveals you to have a belief system that is not grounded in reality. Literally

[David]

Reality isn't grounded in our primitive understanding of it. Scepticism without enquiry is a form of ignorance.

I have information which I'm prepared to trust but it doesn't matter if it's wrong because I'm not living by it. For me, it's a case of wait and see or one day going to find out.

Rgds,
David

[Tit Sa]

"Only that the few people alive that actually practiced it were dying off. I seriously doubt that any are alive anymore."

How convenient.

I say again. Lets say "light skill" is real and Lum Sang knew it. By default, he won't be the only one NOR THE LAST, because what one person can accomplish so can another. Even if we are talking about naturally gifted people.

So again where are they?

I don't pre-judge at all. I say show me. I use logic, and it is illogical to believe in such stories.

Sure light skill exists, but not to the extent of the fairy tales spun by your sifu at the kwoon. Jumping higher than Dwight Stone in the Olympics? I say bulls!t alert.

[Sam]

I hate to disaggree Chin Chong Cao but Grand Master Lam Sang did teach a non-asian taxi driver who once helped him and one of the last five was half Haka and half Black.