"Light Gung Fu"

[ctoepker]

Originally posted by Kymus


quote:
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Originally posted by Golden Arms
you have enough time and enough practice at something, and enough lack of sanity to think you have a limit..you might break some barriers people think are not possible to pass.
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I agree

On the other hand, if this were true then a lot of people with a lack of sanity would be floating around, or bouncing bullets off of them, etc.

I wonder why we don't see that happening?

CT

[Mika]

Originally posted by ctoepker


I wonder why we don't see that happening?

CT

You do?

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

Kymus,

That is because the training methods have been lost following repeated destruction of the shaolin temple. Plus, repeated wars and battles wipped out the fighting lines of the old masters. These began with the chinese government troops, boxer rebellion and japanese invasion.

The old masters did break some barriers, knowing that, the government troops had to contract a traitor white brow to purge the temple defenses. The monks defending the temple were so powerful that thousands of government troops would not be a match against a handful that had chi.

[Glimmer]

I heard it was White Eyebrow, Gandalf and the Witch-Finder General who finally defeated the evil monks..

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

Glimmer,

The age of magic was in decline which allowed the mongols to invage China. During the 17th C, you see a resurgence of kung fu through a number of northern styles that were quite powerful. However, their techniques were physical, not much chi as it was based on bits and pieces of lost texts.

The masters of these 2nd Generation styles were correct in practicing their chi kung under trees to collect chi energy over the years. In the old days, monks would suck up the life force of a forest in an hour's worth of training.

By the time of 2nd world war, the age of magic in china was finally over. In the west, it was over when the torch was passed on to man.

[ctoepker]

Originally posted by Mika


You do?

Mika,

What, see people floating around? Or people able to bounce bullets off themselves? No. Of course not.

That's the point. No one did.

While some have convinced themselves this stuff happened once upon a time in a magical China, there really is no evidence for it at all.

CT

[freehand]

<sigh.>
I have seen several high masters from various arts at seminars and demos, and have marveled at their skill. I have seen a few actions which made the hair on the back of my neck stand on end. (But I have tentative explanations which encompass normal physiology and physics.) I have never seen a simple act of athleticism which surpassed an Olympic athlete's feats.

In one movie, Bruce Lee kicks out a light in a ceiling - very impressive. But the light hangs down, and he twists in the air, a very acrobatic move. I estimate the light was 6.5 feet (2 m) off the ground, and his center of gravity was 5 to 5.5 feet. Much better than I could do, but it wouldn't win the gold as a high jump.

Just because someone can bench press 250 kg doesn't mean there is someone out there who can do 500. There are limits to the human body. I do not know what the limits to human co-ordination and kinethetic awareness are, but I have a good idea of the limits to strength and speed.

I have seen no indication that there is anything to chi which can't be explained by focus, skill, pressure points, timing, balance, and leverage. Perhaps there is more, but I will wager that whatever amalgamation of processes it may be, it does not extend beyond the master's skin. It will not be felt by the attacker except as the master touches him, or thru psychological effects, (which may be considerable).

The universe is a strange and wondrous place, and it need not lose its magic for you just because you discount, ermm... magic.

As for using many troops to attack the Shaolin Temple, well, how many SWAT team cops are sent to clear out a gangster's nest? The police aren't interested in a fair fight either; they want overwhelming force. Besides, the monks had a reputation already, and Emperors tend to believe the worst in their potential enemies.

Train as your teacher says, but take his stories about *his teacher's abilities with a grain of salt.

[TenTigers]

I am a hopeful skeptic-meaning I don't immediately discount something, but I also don't immediately believe in it either. I want to see it, feel it, witness it first hand. I want to believe, but you'd better show me.
I still would like to know how selective breaking is done.

[ctoepker]

Originally posted by TenTigers
I still would like to know how selective breaking is done.

There are probably a few ways to do it...here is one that works.

Alternately freeze and heat a brick. It will look the same but become very brittle. Carefully put it in a stack of numbered bricks and then use a sleight of hand trick to 'force' the selection of the brick.

One easy way to 'force' is to do the trick in front of a crowd. Show them the stack of bricks you've made. Be sure to have them test out a couple of real bricks seperately and reassure them that there is no sleight of hand or other tricks. (In the great words of Penn & Teller, lie.) Then have the audience shout out which brick you should break so that they can choose the brick, not you.

Of course, in reality you're in control the whole time. The trick is that you know which brick is breakable and when you hear the pre-determined one, you say "OK, I heard 'number 7' first" and then hit the stack with #7 in it. It will break and you will be a Chi-filled master in their eyes.

Now that I have shared this with you all, I am sure you'll want to buy my chi-filled master video instructional course for 10 easy installments of just $49.99! Can you handle the power of a kung fu black belt?!

Of course, you could also just lose your sanity as suggested above and then break the limits of physics.

Good luck,
CT

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

My point is, the masters in the old days could surpass what we consider to be human limits. However, I do agree that there were few who havew mastered their skills to such a high level because it takes a genetic disposition to gain mastery. As such, they might not have appeared in official records. We know that the chinese government troops designed a fantastic array of weapons that would not be reproduced in over 2 centuries later. Understand the evidence need not be direct but can be inferred.

[ctoepker]

Originally posted by Ego_Extrodinaire

...mastered their skills to such a high level because it takes a genetic disposition to gain mastery...
We know that the chinese government troops designed a fantastic array of weapons that would not be reproduced in over 2 centuries later. Understand the evidence need not be direct but can be inferred.

Inferring genetically predisposed magical super soldiers from
anything currently in the record is going to be far fetched. One can fill the gap with all sorts of assumptions, but that doesn't create evidence or a solid conclusion.

Can you provide a brief list of the weaopns that you know of but which cannot be reproduced? Please don't repeat the above example of rapid fire cross bow. That has been reproduced.

CT

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

Soldiers didn't usually have those weapons, which takes a life time to train and a frame of mind that runs contrary to the military. They are advance forms of what we see today, like death touch - but at great distances. Levitation to the point of high speed flight. Breaking, burning, disintegrating, objects with chi at a distance, godly accuracy and precision with swords, rooting, light kung fu, controlling the elements, there could be more. Shaolin also has a training chamber of bronze men made from gears and levers. We are only scratching the surface of robotics today. There is much we can learn from ancient chinese as their civilization is thousands of years old.

[ctoepker]

Originally posted by Ego_Extrodinaire
Soldiers didn't usually have those weapons, which takes a life time to train and a frame of mind that runs contrary to the military. They are advance forms of what we see today, like death touch - but at great distances. Levitation to the point of high speed flight. Breaking, burning, disintegrating, objects with chi at a distance, godly accuracy and precision with swords, rooting, light kung fu, controlling the elements, there could be more. Shaolin also has a training chamber of bronze men made from gears and levers. We are only scratching the surface of robotics today. There is much we can learn from ancient chinese as their civilization is thousands of years old.

Ego,

As a great Chinese master once said, if The Ancients could fly, why did they all have stairs in their homes? Likewise, if chi and magic really was utilized in the way you say, why would Shaolin need gears and levers to animate the bronze men? Why not just animate them with magic?

Earlier you said that the sorts of weapons you're suggesting weren't reported because soldiers or officers were afraid of looking bad in their reports. How then did they explain the fact that their men were exploded by chi blasts? How did they keep all soldiers quiet? Likewise, how come none of the soldiers you suggest were ever pro regime? Certainly Shaolin monks were more often than not interested in good relations with the current court...even the Qing!

So, maybe you are suggesting that novels and folk tales are the real story?

If so, why don't we see any residue from these exploits? Craters where the earth was blasted? Or excess chi left over in areas of great magical battle, like atomic fallout? Surely great energy discharge must be detectable?

Good luck,
CT

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

Not all ancients could fly. And those that do also like to blend in with the population I guess. Plus I guess it takes more energy and high levels of concentration to fly.

I don't know why the shaolins don't animate bronze men, maybe there are limitations to animation techniques. Fung Sui experts were able to raise the dead with spirits. Generally, they used to be corpses of slained manchu troops. But even then creating a bipadial walking / fighting bronze man is a feat in itself and not one that mordern science can accomplish.

People who fought in those conflict knew what to do, monks and soldiers alike. The ruling family lived in seclusion in the forbidden city that was fortified against the outside world.

There probably were some monks or soldiers who defected. Of course the monks were interested in maintaining and fostering good relations but political decisions shift like the sands - like we see in today's conflicts.

We have acupunture right here but science has not been able to determine "residuals" from the treatment. Maybe science does not have the instruments yet to measure the effects of chi. china has gone through many conflicts and industrial development, who's to say what caused any given crater.

What we know of the chinese is that their knowledge of medicine in many respects were ahead of 19th centuary europe. They had weapons that were unheard of in medieval europe. The Chinese knew that magnesium burned with a bright flash and frequently deployed this on their rockets. The combined effect of the concusion shock wave and the blinding flesh must be disorientating to any monk. if you disrupt the monk's meditative state, they could lose their iron body ability as well as come crashing to the ground.

[travelsbyknight]

I used to be really interested in reading about Ninjas. I agree with their mentality about doing whatever it takes to win...but their fighting system is, in my opinion, retarded.

Anyway, they train their students to be able to jump from high places without making a sound. I think it's completely possible with the right physical training. You don't need to have super saiyan level 5 to do many 'impossible' things.


Lam Sang and the rest of the supernatural kung fu people were the minority. Most of us won't be able to do any of that. I heard he could levitate high in the air. But who cares. What most fail to realize is that these supernaturals were involved in MANY things besides their styles. Lam Sang knew more kung fu than just southern mantis. He supposedly worshipped demons. Who knows what kind of weird sh!t he was involved in. All of these so called super duper masters got their skills from studying MANY styles...and not just the one they made famous.