Cleaning The Body From Inside Out!!!!!

[rubthebuddha]

not quite awake, but you better prepare for my stooge-fu eye gouge, cause we know grapplers cannot defend against kung fu eye strikes.

[SevenStar]

crap, I dunno if I have a way to defend that....anyone got any suggestions?

[SaMantis]

thanks inic, I'll start looking! Honey was easier to find in orlando, there's a lot of local beekeepers down there who sell it directly to the health food store with a big chunk of honeycomb in there.

I know what you mean on the raw milk issue. Growing up in Atlanta, you could get raw milk on special order from Mathis Dairy, but the state food inspectors put such stringent regulations on the product that they couldn't afford to sell it anymore.

Texas is the only state I've been in where you can get milk that hasn't been "ultra-pasteurized" ... took me a couple weeks to get used to the fact that the milk would spoil in less than 7 days (instead of after 2 weeks with the u-p stuff).

[Mantis Texan]

Try this website for a wealth of info on healthy lifestyles:
www.CUREZONE.com

Look up Liver Flush or Gall Bladder Cleansing and you'll find great info on the use of Olive Oil, Epsom Salts and Grapefruit Juice to cleanse the colon, liver and gall bladder and you'll be amazed at the results. Good Luck!

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by SevenStar
crap, I dunno if I have a way to defend that....anyone got any suggestions?

Curly’s Two-Fingered Eye Gouge
Form a peace sign with your fingers, then drive it into your opponent’s eyes. Note: If your opponent is also a trained n’yuk fooist, he may counter with Larry’s patented one-handed gouge block.

http://www.maximonline.com/stupid_fu...icle_3215.html

[rubthebuddha]

ssssssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! the only ways i've been able to defeat sevenstar are by armwrestling and eye-gouging. don't take away what weapons i have.

[SevenStar]

Now, I have the power! BWAHAHAHAHAA!!!

[redtornado]

Great I was hoping this forum would last and the topic would educate myself and others...Jeff

[dwid]

Is there any evidence (scientific or medical) at all that unpasteurized milk is superior in any way to pasteurized milk, or is it just a personal preference or something?

[dwid]

But let's use common sense here. For how many thousands of years have humans drank milk right from the cow unpasteurized? How often were there problems? exactly.

Okay, pasteurization was most likely started as a way to make milk healthier or make it take longer to sour. I suppose that's a money-making scheme in the sense that it gives the seller a longer period of time to sell the product before it has to be thrown away, but the idea of a conspiracy of pasteurization is ludicrous.

Yes, bacteria are a natural part of life, but there are many kinds of bacteria, and some are not healthy for consumption. Dairy products are pasteurized, not sterilized. Pasteurization followed by refridgeration kills some (but not all) bacteria and then slows their growth. Much of the normal intestinal flora survives in the product, which is why products like yogurt are good for you after experiencing intestinal illness.

So, I'm not interested in "common sense" here, because it is clearly often not well-informed. I'm interested in whether anyone knows any real evidence for non-pasteurized being more healthy. For example, whether the chemistry of the milk is altered by the process or something like that.

[dwid]

BTW, I think BGH and antibiotic levels in dairy products are probably a much more valid thing to worry about. Regardless of the validity of unpasteurized milk, I'd take pasteurized organic milk over unpasteurized milk loaded with chemicals any day.

[dwid]

Especially with someone who is already thinking of a something to come back with before I even finish.

I'm very willing to be convinced. I am committed to no particular position on this issue, but I just follow evidence (from actual studies and such) over anecdotes and guesswork.

"BTW, common sense >>>> science.
What is "fact" in science changes like the weather."

Not always true. What is fashionable in the world of "nutrition" changes like the weather. Science accommodates and progresses. Aside from the occasional radical shift in theory, science changes in predictable ways as new information is added to build a clearer picture.

I am honestly curious about whether there is any evidence. I'm not asking for you to post a bunch of journal abstracts, just give me a morsel of a reason why unpasteurized is better, a little solid theory instead of just "it's common sense, take my word for it." Common sense used to dictate that there was no need to wash one's hands prior to surgery. By your logic, bacteria being part of life and all, there is still no reason to.

[dwid]

ok, no offense, but people like you really irritate me. All you want to do is talk talk talk and do lots of theorycraft. Well, EVERYTHING can look good on paper, that doesn't mean it will work in the real world. This is the difference between me and most other "nutritionists". I don't play theorycraft, I do actual experiments to find out what REALLY works and what doesn't.

First off, you don't know jack about me, so don't presume to talk about "people like me."

Second, without sound theory you are lost. You tell me that theory is useless, but without theory, all you would have is trial and error of every specific thing you eat. Your statement about the neolithic diet is a theoretical foundation for approaching nutrition, and is the closest thing to a theoretical support for your claims about pasteurization as you've been willing to put up.

There's a lot of wasted words in your posts. You spend a lot more time explaining to me why you won't justify your nutritional ideas than it would take to just explain the basis of them.

Further, cleanliness is a "cultural thing" in all of the most developed cultures in the world. In places where they do not practice medicine in a sterile space, it is because such a space is not available, not because it's just some tradition. From your talk here, I can see that I probably have more knowledge about microbiology in my little finger than you do in your entire body. If you are going to prattle on about microorganisms and such being a natural part of life, go educate yourself about them. In the good old days when people didn't acknowledge the danger of bacteria, lots of people died from easily preventable infections. You can delude yourself all you want about acquired immunity, but go expose yourself to staphylococcus, or tetanus, or e. coli, or any number of other organisms and tell me about how bacteria is a natural part of life.

[FatherDog]

Originally posted by inic
This is the difference between me and most other "nutritionists". I don't play theorycraft, I do actual experiments to find out what REALLY works and what doesn't.

You've made this claim before, and it's bull****.

You do experiments with your own diet. The only thing this lets you find out is what works for you. It doesn't tell you **** about what the effects of your diet will be on other people, and it doesn't tell you **** about what the long-term effects of your eating habits will be.

When I was in college, the only regular exercise I got was midieval reenactment combat once a week. I ate at least one Dominos pizza every day, often two, in addition to my other meals, which usually involved lunchmeat and potato chips. I drank a litre of rum per week minimum, and never drank water, just soda and lemonade. I had 10% bodyfat, a visible six pack, and on the occasions I tried, I could still make a seven minute mile without significant trouble.

Is this proof that if you eat and drink like I did and stickfight once a week, you can get 10% bodyfat and pretty good stamina? NO, of course it isn't, because everyone has different bodies. It's just proof that I could. I shouldn't recommend two pizzas a day and a litre of rum a week to other people just because it worked out fine for me, and you shouldn't recommend your diet to other people just because it works fine for you. Recommendations should be based on studies of the eating patterns of many, many people with control groups and rigorous testing, not one guy's half-assed "experimentation".

I happen to agree with many of your positions on whole and organic foods. I buy organic and freerange, and I eat something close to a neolithic diet (modified to be more in line with the Harvard food pyramid). Your reasoning, however, is anti-intellectual bull****, and quite frankly you do your positions more harm than good in your attempts to justify them with "common sense."

[dwid]

Exactly, Fatherdog,

Lots of people are in good shape in spite of their diet, not because of it.

I happen to agree with many of your positions on whole and organic foods. I buy organic and freerange, and I eat something close to a neolithic diet (modified to be more in line with the Harvard food pyramid). Your reasoning, however, is anti-intellectual bull****, and quite frankly you do your positions more harm than good in your attempts to justify them with "common sense."

I can see the sense of organic and freerange as well and this whole argument erupted because I asked for some specific rationale for why unpasteurized dairy is superior to pasteurized.