The Ultimate Okinawan Martial Arts Thread

[Vash]

Indeed. It's time to discuss Okinawan martial arts. Karate. Kobujutsu. Ties to southern Chinese kenpo styles such as White Crane and Monk Fist Boxing.

Also to be discussed is the political influence(s) upon the OMA, including the ever-present Japanese connection.

Go ahead. You clicked on the topic line. You know you wanna.

Discuss.

[Vash]

Important literary works involved with karate and associated OMA, including the Bubishi.

Characters who've influenced the growth of OMA, Chinese and natives.

[rogue]

Good idea.

[Vash]

I know there's peeps out there with opinions. Thoughts, even.

Share them. Make this thread LIVE!

[rogue]

Did you get that link to the old films of Shimabuku doing the kata?

[Vash]

I don't think so.

[rogue]

Here it is anyways. http://www.americanisshinryukarate.c..._shimabuku.htm

[Vash]

Dang, that was quick.

Thanks, I'll have to take a look at those tomorrow.

[rogue]

Check the performance. I don't know if it was his age, his style or if he's just showing the movements. Check out how he starts seisan right after the salute. Never seen it done that way.

[Vash]

The motion with the right hand looks vaguely similar to what I've been taught. But the way he moves into the technique, kinda looks like Sanchin.

Good links. Thanks.

[Kempo Guy]

From my experience, many (if not most) Karate dojo have rigid discipline to an almost militaristic degree. I believe this was due to several factors, including but not limited to the following:

- the inclusion of "tode" as part of the physical education curriculum in schools
- the development of modern Karate at the height of Japanese imperialistic ideals oppressing anything foreign (and yes, the Ryukyuan culture was foreign to the Japanese)
- the change from "jutsu" to a "do", i.e. development of self rather than development of skills in fighting.

As you know, Okinawan Islands and its various arts were heavily influenced by the Chinese. When the the Chinese arts (Kenfat / Chuan Fa) were transplanted to the Ryukyu archipelago the Chinese influence were much stronger than that of the Japanese... Having said that, the Japanese attitude toward training (as well as the introduction of dogi etc) were introduced after the Meiji restoration when the attitude of "Yamato damashii" (Japanese spirit) was at its peak.

Just some thoughts to resurrect this thread...

Any comments?
KG

[Vash]

Originally posted by Kempo Guy
From my experience, many (if not most) Karate dojo have rigid discipline to an almost militaristic degree. I believe this was due to several factors, including but not limited to the following:

- the inclusion of "tode" as part of the physical education curriculum in schools

I can see that.

- the development of modern Karate at the height of Japanese imperialistic ideals oppressing anything foreign (and yes, the Ryukyuan culture was foreign to the Japanese)

This sounds most probable.

- the change from "jutsu" to a "do", i.e. development of self rather than development of skills in fighting.

Again, yeah. The correct has thusly been smacked about for the third time.

As you know, Okinawan Islands and its various arts were heavily influenced by the Chinese. When the the Chinese arts (Kenfat / Chuan Fa) were transplanted to the Ryukyu archipelago the Chinese influence were much stronger than that of the Japanese... Having said that, the Japanese attitude toward training (as well as the introduction of dogi etc) were introduced after the Meiji restoration when the attitude of "Yamato damashii" (Japanese spirit) was at its peak.

Encapsulates everything you said earlier.

The rough assimilation of this Okinawan art into Japanese society (well, as much as it was) is very interesting. It also tells a good bit about the how and the why in regards to technical changes of karate.

Here's something that kind of runs into: how did the Japanization of Karate on Japan's mainland affect the Okinawan's performance/dessimination of the art?

[Vash]

Here's another thought.

Where/when did the less-than-likely stories of karate's evolution come from? By these, I mean stories such as the practicing of Karate at night, away from the prying eyes of the Japanese, the development of karate by the farmers, and the killing of fully-aromored Japanese soldiers with a single reverse punch?

Did they come from Okinawan teachers telling tall tales to their foreign students? Were they the fruits of well-meaning, but misinformed, students? or was it just another example of the stretching of oral history for the ears of a new generation?

[rogue]

Were any Okinawan or Japanese karate master ever farmers?

The regimented training, also known as lots of students punching air, is a Western military transplant. Sadly one that is now ingrained into karate.

[Vash]

Okinawan Masters who were farmers . . .

*coughTatsuoShimabukucough*

Granted, that was early in his life, but still . . .

Yeah, my class has a lot of air punching. Thankfully, we have even more partner work. Partner work is what we base our curriculum around.

I've got a bunch of suggestions for my instructor once I get to working out again. Things like total application of kata footwork and technique to sparring. Hopefully, he'll like the stuff.