Shaolin Wing Chun ??

[canglong]

When a Shaolin stylist sees a Wing Chun stylist, does he think, yeah--that's a Shaolin system. Does a Wing Chun stylist when he sees a Shaolin stylist doing forms think, yeah thats Wing Chun!

The learned practitioner will only see properly or improperly applied principles nothing more nothing less. For the record the Hung Fa Yi method (hou shun san sou and the philosophy of saam mo kiu) of training are the cornerstones of it's Shaolin heritidge which simply educates practitioners on how to best utilize these principles not just in martial endeavors but all aspects of one's life. Shaolin, Cha'n (Zen) or Tao none of these will come to you unless you are out there actively seeking them you want proof go find it otherwise stop deceiving yourself into believeing you will know it when you see it.

[redtornado]

Thanks for the Info and thought...

[reneritchie]

reviewing the Tiandihui book, gives insight into just how prevalent a technique that was in terms of each secret societies "origin theory".

Secret Societies Reconsidered pretty much obliterated that as well, pointing out how most Shaolin tales which form the basis for modern MA origins were derivitives from earlier Tang dynasty stories. In fact, most professional scholars, which enjoying the creation myths, seem to very quickly put them in their proper place, then move on to the real history.

[canglong]

Rene,
Savi's 3 questions are still on the table for you next time you care to continue this thread please don't hendrik the questions.

[kj]

Thanks for mentioning the text references, Dave and René. It's challenging for the lay person (like me) to locate relevant and reliable scholarly research, no less documented in English. "The Origins of the Tiandihui" in particular appears to be a highly referenced source by other researchers.

I just wish my reading list wasn't several lifetimes long. :/

Regards,
- Kathy Jo

[planetwc]

Interesting.

So from a HFY perspective there is no similarity in the forms or the movements (between Shaolin arts and HFY) only the principles.

Can one infer that the principles are more about Chan and Tao and less about martial techniques then? Or is that too much of a stretch?

Or is it that from an HFY perspective the martial principles derive from Chan and Tao so much that you can't literally have one without the other?

One wonders how many of the other Shaolin martial systems have that same approach in teaching and training?

Originally posted by canglong
The learned practitioner will only see properly or improperly applied principles nothing more nothing less. For the record the Hung Fa Yi method (hou shun san sou and the philosophy of saam mo kiu) of training are the cornerstones of it's Shaolin heritidge which simply educates practitioners on how to best utilize these principles not just in martial endeavors but all aspects of one's life. Shaolin, Cha'n (Zen) or Tao none of these will come to you unless you are out there actively seeking them you want proof go find it otherwise stop deceiving yourself into believeing you will know it when you see it.

[Phenix]

Originally posted by planetwc


Can one infer that the principles are more about Chan and Tao and less about martial techniques then?

Imo,
up to now, there is no Chan practice shown but lots of claim which is clearly ideas derive from logical mind but not the type of nature from non duality.

Shao lin dont do Yuen Shan stuffs... the cultivation path is in contradiction. It will side tract the chan cultivation if Mix Yuen Shan stuffs to Chan.




I agree with Rene.

Compared the describtion to the history book of chinese secret society believe system,

it seems it is closer to the description of the secrete society way of thinking then true Shao Lin chan Buddhism way .

The believe sysyem is a mix of some Buddhist terms without indepth , Daoist, Confusious, and chinese folk believe .....

BTW. I dont critics others believe but trying to see how things fits.



Just some thoughts

[reneritchie]

No worries, KJ. There are several great, professional, scholarly books out there, all pretty much in agreement, which shed enormous light on the era.

I think if people could clearly separate their enjoyable and entertaining oral accounts from their verifiable histories, give both their proper respect, but not confuse the two, it would be to everyone's benefit.

[redtornado]

The ?? were are these forms like the 3 forms in Yip Man Forms? Are they close to eachother? Well there are alot of ?'s Too history ,,, i have found that there are well dotumented facts,, But are these forms not in the southern Shaolin Kung fu forms? I would like to see these forms also.......... To see how they are useful and ect.. Love kung fu
Please understand that I have no meaning to start any thing up!
I just found this Shaolin Wing Chun forms !!!
Does anybody know them???
Jeffrey Williams and thanks to you all for sharing Wing Chun..

[duende]

Red Tornado,

I have heard mention of the forms you are interested at a HFY seminar by a student named Suki. He had studied a verson of Saolin KF in london which had Chi Sao, and he mentioned some of the forms you are asking about.

I would suggest going to www.hfy108.com where he is a member and asking your question there.

As you have seen, their are certain individuals here who have no interest whatsoever in answering your question. Only interest in using your thread to promote their political agenda.

[reneritchie]

Red Tornado - No. In my experience, invariably when a system using the name WCK has more than the typical 3 sets, the other sets are different in kind from SN/LT, CK, or BJ. In most cases, they are village boxing sets (sets that were trained in the local village) or sets from other systems which have been added to or fuzed with WCK.

(Although in some cases, the fusion can make SN/LT, CK, & BJ look more like the other arts, but unless I'm mistaken, that wasn't the direction of your question?)

[Savi]

Originally posted by Phenix



Imo,
up to now, there is no Chan practice shown but lots of claim which is clearly ideas derive from logical mind but not the type of nature from non duality.

Shao lin dont do Yuen Shan stuffs... the cultivation path is in contradiction. It will side tract the chan cultivation if Mix Yuen Shan stuffs to Chan.




I agree with Rene.

Compared the describtion to the history book of chinese secret society believe system,

it seems it is closer to the description of the secrete society way of thinking then true Shao Lin chan Buddhism way .

The believe sysyem is a mix of some Buddhist terms without indepth , Daoist, Confusious, and chinese folk believe .....

BTW. I dont critics others believe but trying to see how things fits.



Just some thoughts

Thanks for clarifying these are just YOUR opinions and thoughts. There is nothing wrong with that then...

[redtornado]

Good thanks for link!!!
I see that the Yip Man forms are three hand But Trying other forms and feelling them yourself... I'm still working on the three hands forms!! Now I see where these other forms come from... Cool!! Wing Chun Kuen , Shaolin, Ect.. They all have there forms to practise movement. Right!
Planet Wing Chun say's Only Principles are the same.
This has been a good!!!!!!!!!



Stay true to the Crue

[duende]

Red Tornado,

You'll find more and more that the number 3 is important throughout Saolin learning methodologies. This is due to Saam Mo Kiu concept or three connecting bridge concept. Wandering, Awareness, and focus are consistenly utilized as ways of enlightening students to the nature of the system. Very different than reading a chapter from a book, and then taking a test on that chapter. Often such knowledge acquired that way is only temporary, and soon forgotten.

Glad to be of help.

[redtornado]

Thanks everyone that has been great<,,,, Now lets meditate Wing chun ------------------------------------------------------------------------kung fu