2 eagle claw grandmasters????

[Shaolinlueb]

Quote Lily's Website "On March 17, 1964, Master Lau (Lau Fut Mon), passed away at the age of 62. Lily, at the age of nineteen, rose to her father's position and became the 8th Generation Eagle Claw Kung Fu Grandmaster."

And a book I have by Lueng Shum it has for lineage
Lau Fut Mon --> Ng Wai Nung --> Leung Shum


So I'm confused, can there be 2 grandmasters of the style?

Adam

[No_Know]

There can only be one recognized Grandmaster perhaps. But several masters.

Leung Shum was mentioned in the Lily Lau website mention of the history Of "Shaolin "Fan Tsi Eagle Claw.""

Leung Shm had a book on Ying Jow Pai. Might be a variation on the "Shaolin "Fan Tsi Eagle Claw.""

But I think what you are looking at is a grandmaster and a Master. Might be likely. I hope.

[D_Messenger]

You must be wondering: who is this guy?
i only exist to deliver, it doesnt mather who I am supposed to be.

So allow me to further deliver:
there are two lineages, and each of those 2 people is the "grandmaster" of his/hers lineage.

An advise: forget about crappy tittles such as grandmaster this, master that. They are pointless.

[Shaolinlueb]

Originally posted by D_Messenger
You must be wondering: who is this guy?
i only exist to deliver, it doesnt mather who I am supposed to be.

So allow me to further deliver:
there are two lineages, and each of those 2 people is the "grandmaster" of his/hers lineage.

An advise: forget about crappy tittles such as grandmaster this, master that. They are pointless.

But they both come from Lau Fut Mon? he tought them 2 seperate styles?

[PHILBERT]

Yeah, there are lots of arts that have Grandmaster. Wing Chun for example. Grandmaster Leung Ting, Grandmaster William Cheung, Grandmaster Ip Ching, Grandmaster Ip Chung. Just because there are 2 does not mean one is fake and the other is real.

Then again it might.

[Shaolinlueb]

im just confused i was ready leung shums book adn it jsuted looked like 1 style of eagle claw passed down. and wu tai chi?

is lueng shum just a guy who thinks he is or did lily lau self proclaim herself? I dont know, straighten this out for me?

[hasayfu]

Shaolinlueb, what is your question?

Lily Lau took over her father schools at his passing. She had a hard time being a girl/women in a men's world. I don't know Leung Shum but I have heard good things about him. Your lineage shows he learned from someone who learned from Lily Lau's father. I always thought he was a direct student. Whatever. He's still good.

Now what is your definition of grandmaster? In chinese, Si-Gung (grandmaster) just means your teacher's teacher. Much like a grand-father. In this sense, they are both grandmasters.

If you mean lineage holder, then you need to decide which lineage. Did Lau Fat Man name a successor? This I don't know. IF not, then you get to D_messenger's comment. Each is the lineage holder of their lineage.

[D_Messenger]

If I recall they decided both lineages were recognized and each have their "grandmaster"
So there the lineage of: Lau Fat -> Lily
And the one of: Ng -> Leung

Also I think only the one of Ng is supposed to have Wu Tai Chi, though I can't remember who Ng learned Wu from.
Also dont remember if Leung trained with more teacher(s) other than Ng.

[norther practitioner]

If I believe my memory (which I try not to do too often)...


There was a small spat between the two a few years back... If you google it you should be able to come up with some letters to the editor (I think it was IKF) about this from the two parties.

[D_Messenger]

Actually that wasn't Lau vs Shum if I recall
It was about a 3rd lineage supposedly
One of some guy named "Something Leung" - his last name was Leung, unlike Leung Shum, this two are not the same.
So there was Leung Shum, Lily Lau and this other guy named Something Leung.
The argueing was Lau (lastname) vs Leung (lastname) if I recall.
Then they had a meeting of the 3 of them and decided some stuff.

[Ironwind]

If they don't mind having another person going around saying they are the grandmaster of a style then fine, let them be.
If not, fight it out and the winner is grandmaster.
Also if the masters are all on the same belt rank could'nt it be possibble for that person to be called a grand master.
Linage isn't everything it's just a way to let an ancestors name carry your instruction slack.
And I believe that it is posibble for it to be more than one Grand Master. If the past master says so, who can question his last wishes?

[Chinwoo-er]

ok, I am not really up to date about all this

In the risk of sounding stupid,



can someone please define "grandmaster" ?
Also, how does that differ from master ?

[D_Messenger]

Sure, "master" is the fancy tittle people use to try act like they are some more while "grandmaster" is the fancy tittle people use to try act like they are even more some more than a "master".

[Shaolinlueb]

Originally posted by D_Messenger
Actually that wasn't Lau vs Shum if I recall
It was about a 3rd lineage supposedly
One of some guy named "Something Leung" - his last name was Leung, unlike Leung Shum, this two are not the same.
So there was Leung Shum, Lily Lau and this other guy named Something Leung.
The argueing was Lau (lastname) vs Leung (lastname) if I recall.
Then they had a meeting of the 3 of them and decided some stuff.

his name wasn't Leung Li Fu by any chance was it?

[D_Messenger]

It was the guy from this style:
http://www.bakshaolineagleclaw.com/

His name is Fu Leung or Leung Fu
Now I'm really confused as to wich is his last and first name...