Is the VTM being disrespectful?

[reneritchie]

NO!

IMHO, while I do not agree with everything in the article quoted and referenced below, I find nothing wrong or disrespectful about challenging the idea of Ng Mui, or referring to it as a myth.

Nor do I see anything wrong or disrespectful about challenging the idea of a Shaolin-WCK connection, or referring to it as a myth.

Hopefully there is no double standard and everyone will encourage the open discussion of both these, and other, important issues without hypocracy and with productivity.


"The Secret History of Wing Chun: The Truth Revealed
(also appeared as "Wing Chun Controversy: Is this the truth about Wing Chun's History")
By Benny Meng and Alfredo Delbrocco
"The first casualty when war comes is truth."
-- Hiram Johnson

...

"Put simply, the harsh truth is this: the myth of the Buddhist nun, Ng Mui and her disciple Yim Wing Chun, the supposed founders of the Wing Chun system, is just that - a myth. As the internet has brought information more readily to us, it has come to light that the story of Ng Mui and Yim Wing Chun was merely a way to conceal the truth about the system's origins and the identities of the political rebels who truly developed it..."

http://home.vtmuseum.org/articles/me...threvealed.php

[reneritchie]

Putting Myths to Rest

BY
Benny Meng and Richard Loewenhagen

...
Recent findings uncovered by historians and martial arts teachers feeding continuous streams of information and documentation to the Ving Tsun Museum in Dayton, Ohio -- and verified through extensive travel by the Museum Curator and staff to substantiate sources and documentation -- reveal that Ng Mui played no role in the creation or development of Wing Chun Kung Fu, if she ever existed at all...


http://home.vtmuseum.org/articles/meng/myths.php

[Train]

I do not think it is disrespectful at all. I mean it's what they believe and the VTM did travel and provided us info on their research. Who else is willing to spend the time and money to do something like that.

[duende]

Wow...

If flipflopping between this thread, and your last deleted thread wasn't enough... It appears you need to flipflop again in your second post.

Everyone's welcome to their opinions of course... but really now, these posts of yours are tired!

[yuanfen]

Not disrespectful but no respect is expected. Research?
promotion? Depends on viewpoint.
Siddharta? Bodhidharma? Christ? Eve?Bodies found? Birth certificates? DNA?
Methods? Falsifiable assumptions? Sifting opinions?(How)
Methodology? How to avoid affirming the pre-determined conclusion? Definitions?(nature of myths)

[reneritchie]

Hey Joy,

Good points. Personally, I just think there shouldn't be a double standard. If they're okay with Benny talking that way about Ng Mui, they should be okay with others talking that way about the Shaolin->Wing Chun connection.

I think the best way to avoid bias and vested self-interest is to do like the Foshan WCK association did--have equal representation from among the established branches, but with a neutral party as the chair. That way, many different and divergent opinions, views, theories, etc. can enjoy discussion.

[old jong]

It comes from China eh?...

[Phenix]

Originally posted by reneritchie


I think the best way to avoid bias and vested self-interest is to do like the Foshan WCK association did--have equal representation from among the established branches, but with a neutral party as the chair. That way, many different and divergent opinions, views, theories, etc. can enjoy discussion.

Rene,

I certainly agree with the idea.

Called me when the panel were form: I suggest within the panel also the expert of White Crane from Fujian, Emei from Emei, Shao Lin from Song Shan, all from main land China.

(I dont mind raising money to pay the travel for all of the experts, I think 10,000 USD might be enough for 3 Masters. )
Get A real Chinese Chan patriach class monk also.

Then, I will bring all my data to join and let them make the decision.



Let's take a part and analized SLT to dead, in term of Spritual, Mind, Body.

But, I bet you IP Man, YKS, Fung Family..... will be right in the conclusion.

White Crane based!
Want to Bet?

Make that day happen, set up the panel.
I will wiat for your Called RENE! Anytime any place!

[yuanfen]

Hendrik: Let's analized SLT to dead.
------------------------------------------
Let's not.
YGKYM might collapse.
Couldn't resist.
Joy

[Phenix]

Joy,

No worried,

you just have to rotate your body 45degrees to your left or right without changing your YJKYM and see what stance is that become ?and how the grounding is firm, your body is link naturally.

Try it.

JIM, Try it

Rene, Try it




WCK's YJKYM is so elegant and transformation ready similar to water. It is alive.

Switching back and forth from Emei and White Crane is eaaaasyyyy.

IT is natural isnt it?

We practice with facing forward, we use it with 45degree offset.
Why do you thing CK do those side turn to left and right? hahahahah. See it now? It cover your groin area great too. :d

I left the fun for your all to night in your Kwon while practicing!

[kungfu cowboy]

Cool! Now it can be published!

[reneritchie]

Lachine it is!

[old jong]

A nice name for a school ....Club de kung fu de Lachine!....Sounds authentic...Give me 10%....

For those who could'nt know; An area of Montreal's island is called "Lachine" witch means "China" in french. An old story...

[Gangsterfist]

I heard somewhere that there was a birth certificate for Yim Wing Chun during that time period???

Anyone know if this is correct?

As for Ng Mui, I have heard theories that Ng Mui was a monk disguised as a nun. This was because monks were kill on sight at some places and he disguised himself as Ng Mui for safety. Also, most people (men) do not see women as a threat, so it would make it easier to travel I suppose????

However, I don't know how much of all of this can or can't be proven.

[anerlich]

As for Ng Mui, I have heard theories that Ng Mui was a monk disguised as a nun.

Oh, great, so WC was invented by a cross-dresser.

I guess it's no more fanciful than some of the other ideas I've read in recent times.