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Thread: Dit Da Jow...

  1. #61
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
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    Seattle, WA.
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    1,754
    No sorries needed mi amigo. The props belong to Mike, not me. I am glad to turn you onto his stuff, and I am happy that you and others are supporting Mike.

    I tell you what, if the Pong Lai group uses it then it is good for anyone! I have never seen so many students, so willing to beat the living hell out of each others arms, legs, and bodies! The Pong Lai group (Yu Shan is part of that BTW) does more conditioning than anyone I have seen in that respect, so if they are using it you are **** sure it works and is good! Can't wait to come over and see all you guys sometime again Jim!! Say Hi to the crew for me!
    Cheers
    Jake
    "Gravity doesn't lie, and the ground never misses."
    Jake Burroughs
    Three Harmonies Chinese Martial Arts Center
    Seattle, WA.
    www.threeharmonies.com
    three_harmonies@hotmail.com
    www.threeharmonies.blogspot.com

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by ZenGuy View Post
    sounds good,
    anybody recommend some cheap di ja available in the UK???
    if not then a good supplier with cheap UK delivery.
    would be much appreceated if youve had good sucess with some.


    also what do u think of the theory thay the bruse damage only to surface later in life as arthritis or a problem?
    goes into the bone,

    Try www.chinesehealtharts.co.uk good Dit Da pluse stuff for older injuries.

  3. #63
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    East Northport, NY
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    94

    Die Da Jiew

    Quote Originally Posted by herb ox View Post

    One thing I tend to shy away from is jow that costs a lot of money. It shouldn't. Herbs are cheap and so is the liquor used to make the preparation. The best jow I've used was relatively cheap (or free!).

    herb ox
    Agreed. I use the cheapest "American Whiskey" that I can find. I have a 6 gallon carboy that's going on five years now; when I start decanting it next year I'll have a lifetime supply of jow for use in my clinic for an original cost of about $125.

    Best,

    Steve Lamade

  4. #64

    Xie Xie Nimen!

    Quote Originally Posted by herb ox View Post
    Welcome the TCM forum, Shaolin Girl... I dig your avatar.
    Thank you! :-)

  5. #65
    A Good Dit Da Jow Recipe

    1 bottle of strong vodka, gin or Chinese rice wine
    Artemesia (Liu ji nu) - 5g
    Borneol (Bingpian) - 1g
    Carthamus (Honghua) - 5g
    Catechu (Ercha) - 8g
    Cinnabar (Zhusha) - 5g
    Cirsium (DaJi) - 1g
    Dragon's Blood (Xuejie) - 30g
    Mastic (Ruxiang) - 5g
    Musk (Shexiang) - 1g
    Myrrh (Moyao) - 5g
    Pinellia (ShengBanXia) - 5g

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaylun View Post
    goes into the bone,

    Try www.chinesehealtharts.co.uk good Dit Da pluse stuff for older injuries.
    anybody have personal experience with this?
    cheers, thank alot

  7. #67
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Huntington, NY, USA website: TenTigers.com
    Posts
    7,718
    what herbs can you substitute for
    ah-ping
    bear claw
    bear bile
    deer musk

  8. #68
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Canada!
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    23,110
    Quote Originally Posted by dougadam View Post
    A Good Dit Da Jow Recipe

    1 bottle of strong vodka, gin or Chinese rice wine
    Artemesia (Liu ji nu) - 5g
    Borneol (Bingpian) - 1g
    Carthamus (Honghua) - 5g
    Catechu (Ercha) - 8g
    Cinnabar (Zhusha) - 5g
    Cirsium (DaJi) - 1g
    Dragon's Blood (Xuejie) - 30g
    Mastic (Ruxiang) - 5g
    Musk (Shexiang) - 1g
    Myrrh (Moyao) - 5g
    Pinellia (ShengBanXia) - 5g
    lose the cinnabar and substitue it with 5g powdered arnica blossoms. (leopard bane / arnica monatana)

    also, I wouldn't use the camphor either, it doesn't do anything except provide superficial heat and it's analgesic quality is low.
    Kung Fu is good for you.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by David Jamieson View Post
    I wouldn't use the camphor either, it doesn't do anything except provide superficial heat and it's analgesic quality is low.
    I believe that will open up the pores through which the other herbs can enter. Not all herbs are added for medicinal purposes, but also to get other herbs to get to the place needed for them to do their work.

    Changing TCM herbal formulas requires solid knowledge, the interaction between herbs can go quite deep and requires quite a bit of study at a TCM university or similar IMHO.

  10. #70
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Under the old oak tree
    Posts
    616

    Borneol - Bing Pian

    I didn't see Camphor (Zhang Nao) in the formula - but I did see Bing Pian (Borneol) listed. These are two substances with opposite energetic qualities. Camphor is spicy, hot and toxic, whereas Borneol is spicy, bitter and cool. Either way, I'd leave it in there - borneol is cooling and likely balances the heat of the ban xia and helps to stop pain. Overall this formula is rather cool (energetically) - seems like it'd be more suited for acute, hot swollen injuries, rather than for treating old or chronic injuries.

    peace

    herb ox

  11. #71
    I did not actually took a look at the formula at all (blush). Just wanted to make a comment on leaving out herbs in general.

    Cheers for the extra info herbox

  12. #72
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
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    Under the old oak tree
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    understood...

    Asmo, you bring an interesting point to the table - many of the elder dit da formulas use obscure, illegal, or toxic ingredients - eg tiger bone, bear gall bladder, eagle claws (for your eagle claws ) etc... and need an appropriate substitute

    Zu Sha, or Cinnabar is still used in very small amounts for its spirit-calming properties. It has mercury oxide in it, however, it is treated to reduce the toxic qualities. I'd most likely leave it out of my formula, as there are other herbs with qualities appropriate for subsitution. Another example is using Ding Xiang (cloves) to replace She Xiang (deer musk) as the musk deer is threatened by those who seek to profit from this rare substance.

    I believe these substitutions bring the ancient art of herbal formulation into the new age - times change, the environment has changed, and so have we. As such, active research into finding suitable replacements for substances that are obsolete is certainly needed. Perhaps some of our forum members can provide us with their own research and experiences.

    peace on earth

    herb ox

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by herb ox View Post
    Asmo, you bring an interesting point to the table - many of the elder dit da formulas use obscure, illegal, or toxic ingredients - eg tiger bone, bear gall bladder, eagle claws (for your eagle claws ) etc... and need an appropriate substitute
    That post was actually made by David Jamieson. But I agree that for toxic herbs like Cinnabar or endangered species (or unethically obtained ingredients) you should use substitutes. But I personally wouldn't start to try and substitute (or leave them out) without having got some extensive university level study in TCM. Naturally, for some herbs there are known substitutes*.

    Until then I'll stick to either patent medicines, or formulas I can use without such problems.

    *) Which sometimes makes me frown so much on the use of the ingredient in the first place.. Like cats bone for tiger bone. They both have equal value? Or chicken claw instead of eagle claw. Like WTF? But I guess that valids a complete discussion on its own
    Last edited by Asmo; 12-09-2006 at 01:23 AM.

  14. #74
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    East Northport, NY
    Posts
    94

    Herbal Substitutions

    Quote Originally Posted by TenTigers View Post
    what herbs can you substitute for
    ah-ping
    bear claw
    bear bile
    deer musk

    I'm not sure what "ah-ping" is. Do you mean "Ai Pian?" i.e., Bing Pian?

    For bear claw and bear bile: I'd heard that bear paw is used in some formulas and cuisine as a tonic herb so I would guess that you could substitute other tonic herbs if that's the purpose for which you wanted it;you can substitute cow gallbladder (Nui Dan) in larger doses for bear gallbladder, and I believe that there is a synthetic bile taken from cow gallbladder that can be used as well.

    Re. She Xiang (Deer Musk) most people use a synthetic product called muskone (He Cheng She Xiang Tong); it is still rather expensive and hard to find - but not illegal as far as I know.

    Best,

    Steve Lamade

  15. #75
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Huntington, NY, USA website: TenTigers.com
    Posts
    7,718
    Thanx, Steve.We met at Tom's seminar-I was the one who did the plum blossom needling for your headache. ah-pien is opium. I suppose I couldn't substitute Robbitussen?
    I went hunting last week, almost brought back enough bear for all of us. Better luck next time.

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