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Thread: Dit Da Jow...

  1. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by KungFubar View Post
    are meridians actual observable anatomical structures or just hocus pocus, does it approach the realm of the supernatural?
    TCM can be explained through western means, but it's just steeped in old-world terminolgy. It also doesn't help that it's a b!tch to define qi.

    Meridian lines - as I understand it - are not part of actual TCM but were essentially made up something like 200 years ago by a westerner. How it came to be accepted as fact, I do not know.

    See this thread: http://kungfuqigong.com/forum/showthread.php?t=65979

    it may help.
    Quote Originally Posted by bawang View Post
    like that old japanese zen monk that grabs white woman student titties to awaken them to zen, i grab titties of kung fu people to awaken them to truth.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sal Canzonieri View Post
    You can discuss discrepancies and so on in people's posts without ripping them apart. So easy to do sitting behind a computer screen anonymously, but in person I'm sure you'd be very different, unless you're a total misanthrope without any friends.

  2. #107
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    Wow Soco interested in a career in TCM? Has Hell frozen over?

    Kymus referenced a link to a forward thinking acupuncturist Chris Kresser, who in my opinion reflects a new breed of acupuncturist. The acupuncture field is being rocked by a book that pointed out the Emperor wears no clothes. It is The Dao of Chinese Medicine by Donald Kendall

    http://www.amazon.com/Dao-Chinese-Me...inese+medicine

    The book will get the majority of acupuncturists panties in a bind because it declares that acupuncture is not nor ever was "energy medicine". Individuals such as Kresser and Bob Doane have ruffled the feathers of many in the TCM community by stating that:
    1. The acupuncture "meridians" were simply used for anatomical reference, much like the longitude and latitude lines on a globe. They are not physical structures.
    2. Qi in a medical context never meant "energy'. It means "oxygenated blood" aka "vital air" or "the function of something" (for example "kidney qi deficiency" means lowered kidney function)
    3. "Mai" as in "channel" really means "blood vessel", not energy meridian

    Go to www.elotus.org and click on "speakers" and watch free videos by Bob Doane to get a taste of what I feel is the future of acupuncture.

    Soco: You lamented that most TCM practitioners do not have a good grasp of A&P, but I feel you are only partly right. I feel they have good A skills (especially surface anatomy) but poor P skills. I think that's due to the fact that in TCM school, we learn both medical A&P and TCM "energetics" and when you are just starting in the field, you are typically "in love" with the TCM stuff and also naively think that "Western medicine" isn't as important to the scope of practice of a TCM provider (big mistake!!!). I know at the time, I simply memorized the medical info for the tests then promptly forgot it so as to focus on TCM (as I said, big mistake!).

    We did take classes in A&P. microbiology, radiology, etc., but it wasn't our focus. Anyway, interesting thread.

  3. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Hunstad View Post
    They got a hot chick on the front page and they're saying her name is "Mathew"

    The site sounds awesome. I'm going to poke at it. It's nice to know that Chris Kresser isn't the only one that's trying to bridge the gap.

    Are you familiar with http://www.traditionalstudies.org/? Dunno if it bridges the gap, but it's an attempt to bring the old-world skills to the present day practitioner.
    Quote Originally Posted by bawang View Post
    like that old japanese zen monk that grabs white woman student titties to awaken them to zen, i grab titties of kung fu people to awaken them to truth.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sal Canzonieri View Post
    You can discuss discrepancies and so on in people's posts without ripping them apart. So easy to do sitting behind a computer screen anonymously, but in person I'm sure you'd be very different, unless you're a total misanthrope without any friends.

  4. #109

    Question about Dit Da Jow

    Does it have basically the same effect as Boxing Liniment or is it much different?
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    This is 100% TCMA principle. It may be used in non-TCMA also. Since I did learn it from TCMA, I have to say it's TCMA principle.
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    We should not use "TCMA is more than combat" as excuse for not "evolving".

    You can have Kung Fu in cooking, it really has nothing to do with fighting!

  5. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kellen Bassette View Post
    Does it have basically the same effect as Boxing Liniment or is it much different?
    The active ingredient in boxing liniment is methyl salicylate. The same thing is in wood lock oil and icy hot.

  6. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by SoCo KungFu View Post
    The active ingredient in boxing liniment is methyl salicylate. The same thing is in wood lock oil and icy hot.
    Is this the same for Jow or are there different active ingredients in Jow?
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    This is 100% TCMA principle. It may be used in non-TCMA also. Since I did learn it from TCMA, I have to say it's TCMA principle.
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    We should not use "TCMA is more than combat" as excuse for not "evolving".

    You can have Kung Fu in cooking, it really has nothing to do with fighting!

  7. #112
    No, some jows have menthol in it, but mostly they don't. They rely on herbs and minerals.

  8. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kellen Bassette View Post
    Is this the same for Jow or are there different active ingredients in Jow?
    No. Different active ingredients. And to clarity, on the comment by Raipizo. Methyl Salicylate is not menthol. Different molecules, although they have similar superficial effects. But MS is more reactive, has 2 functional groups to methol's 1. Methyl salicylate once absorbed, is metabolized into salicylic acid. Salicylic acid is an NSAID. Meaning it can inhibit prostaglandins, which are responsible for stimulating inflammation. So, MS while weak does have a pretty founded mechanism of activity.

    And for the record, methyl salicylate is also known as oil of wintergreen. Its a product of an herb.

    As for jow, you have to go on a ingredient by ingredient basis as to what is actually doing what. I have a few recipes written down, I suppose I could dig them out of boxes and do it if I get time. Right now most of my references are boxed up since I'm moving to Ohio.

    The other (and primary) difficulty is, jow is multiple ingredients being heated in an alcohol solution and then aged. This is 100% chemistry (and again why I think anyone wanting to go into TCM should get a heaping dose of chemistry in their prereqs). Its not enough to know what compounds are in each ingredient, but how those compounds interact in the creation process to form the final product.

    As much as TCM purists might hate me for saying this, jow is not natural. Its no different than any pharm science. Only its less pure. But its 100% man made.

  9. #114
    I saw the reference to icy hot, which the ones I've used had menthol possibly the wintergreen oil also. But yeah I'm sure some jows have that in it.

  10. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raipizo View Post
    I saw the reference to icy hot, which the ones I've used had menthol possibly the wintergreen oil also. But yeah I'm sure some jows have that in it.
    True, some of them do have both depending on the brand

  11. #116
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    Tie Da Zhi Tong Gao

    Traditional medicine Tie Da Zhi Tong Gao found to contain scheduled poison


    Tie Da Zhi Tong Gao – a topical paste – had been marketed as providing relief for bruises and sprains, as well as muscle and joint pains.

    By Irwan Shafrizan Ismail - September 4, 2018 @ 7:29pm

    PUTRAJAYA: Traditional Chinese topical medicine Tie Da Zhi Tong Gao has been found to contain the scheduled poison Diphenhydramine – leading the Health Ministry to immediately cancel its product registration.

    Tie Da Zhi Tong Gao – a topical paste – had been marketed as providing relief for bruises and sprains, as well as muscle and joint pains.

    Diphenhydramine is an antihistamine which reduces allergic reactions – but when applied topically, leads to rashes, itchiness and sensitivity to light – which is why it is controlled under the Poisons Act 1952 and can only be prescribed by doctors and pharmacists.

    The Health Ministry’s director-general Datuk Dr Noor Hisham Abdullah said the selling and distribution of the product should be stopped immediately.

    “The Drug Control Authority cancelled the product registration on Aug 28 following the discovery of the scheduled poison, which is not allowed in the formulation,” he said in a statement today.

    [IMG][/IMG]
    Diphenhydramine is an antihistamine which reduces allergic reactions – but when applied topically, leads to rashes, itchiness and sensitivity to light – which is why it is controlled under the Poisons Act 1952 and can only be prescribed by doctors and pharmacists.

    He also urged the public to avoid buying and using the paste, and advised those currently using the product to seek medical help should they experience any discomfort or other unwanted symptoms.

    Dr Noor Hisham warned that anyone selling or distributing Tie Da Zhi Tong Gao would be violating the Control of Drugs and Cosmetics Regulations 1984 and could be penalised with a fine of not more than RM25,000, or imprisonment for not more than three years, or both, for the first offence.

    “For the subsequent offence, (you could be sentenced to) a fine of not more than RM50,000, or jail time of not more than five years, or both.

    “Companies that commit the offence can be fined up to RM50,000 for the first offence and RM100,000 for the subsequent offence,” he added.

    Dr Nooh Hisham said consumers can check the registration status of any product at http://npra.moh.gov.my/.

    “Those seeking information or want to lodge a complaint regarding a product can do so at http://moh.spab.gov.my,” he added.
    This Toxic Chinese Medicine is a Dit Da plaster (as in Dit Da Jow). Tie Da = Dit Da (same Chinese characters 跌打)
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