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Thread: Ng wu say hoi / 5 lakes four seas (Pak Mei salute)

  1. #1
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    Ng wu say hoi / 5 lakes four seas (Pak Mei salute)

    I like the thread on the dragon style salute. So why not also start one on the pak mei salute!

    In the name of the Pak Mei salute the five fingers represent the five major lakes in China and the four fingers in the fist represent the four sea's that surround China. This means: All martial artists are one family, if you don't attack I don't have to come(fight).

    But I find it hard to believe that this is the only meaning behind the salute. I expected (or hoped for...) some deeper meaning. I once heard something that the closed hand/fist represents the Taoist part of Pak Mei and the open hand the Buddhist side. But no further explanation was given. Any other thoughts on the Pak Mei salute?

    Regards Lau

  2. #2
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    Smile Hi Lau,

    Not to state the obvious, the formation of the hands actually looks like the character "white" in Chinese especially when the right palm is slightly slanted on the "sun" Punch.

    Warm regards

    Mantis108
    Contraria Sunt Complementa

    對敵交手歌訣

    凡立勢不可站定。凡交手須是要走。千着萬着﹐走為上着﹐進為高着﹐閃賺騰挪為
    妙着。


    CCK TCPM in Yellowknife

    TJPM Forum

  3. #3

    just a question

    are you aware that the 5 lakes 4 seas is a reference to your styles connection to the Hung Society triad?
    Fight to win!!!

  4. #4
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    Question

    Sifu X, interesting comment. I don't know about that. Can you please tell me more about it? Either on the forum or through a private message?

    Thanks & Regards, Lau

  5. #5

    lau

    hey you can email me at sifufrank@hotmail.com

    or in the mean time you can check out the hung society thru any search engines. also there is a book out, it may be very hard to find, and maybe even out of print, but it tells of the complete history of the hung society or hung mun as they call it.

    the 5 lakes and 4 seas are a secret reference to the hung society. in the book they even show the secret hand signs, the way they would set up chop sticks to inform someone they were a hung society brother. the book is very interesting. it talks about the history with sun yat sen.

    it also talks about how during the movement all males in southern china at that time adopted the name of hung to their own. just as with my sifu in fut san, his name is lok gee hung.

    the hung in lee kun hung is different that the hung in the hung society. the hung in my sifu's name is the same character of the hung societies hung. maybe his father was a member of the hung society. but anyways email me with your number and i will call you.

    oh, i also read somewhere that the formation of the fist and open palm, depending on the stlye, is also a secret reference to the revolution and the hung society. i believe it though because my sigung was a member of the hop sing tong and in his bows his hands are that way.

    even in the bow to the front, bowing left, swing center and then to the right that is another connection to the hung society. some may think it is for choy lee fut, but it really wasn't meant for that.
    it was a sign of their connection to the revolution.

    happy searching.

    frank
    Last edited by SifuX-HSK; 02-27-2004 at 12:41 PM.
    Fight to win!!!

  6. #6

    amazon.com

    you may find the hung society/heaven and earth society
    on amazon.com it is kinda expensive though.
    Fight to win!!!

  7. #7
    Hi Frank,
    Do you have the title of the book? Would you recommend reading it knowing that my interest would come from the pak mei angle of things?
    Thanks!

  8. #8
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    Hi Frank,
    Do you have the title of the book? Would you recommend reading it knowing that my interest would come from the pak mei angle of things?
    Thanks!
    HEY BRO, THIS IS PART OF THE BIBLIOGRAPHY I'M PUTTING IN MY BOOK ON SOURCES

    SOME OF THE STUFF IN THIS LIST IS DOWNLOADABLE.....oh, AND NOTHING ABOUT PAK MEI....SORRY BRO....I ALWAYS KEEP LOOKING BUT NOTHING SO FAR.

    still, some of these books contains awesome answers to my historical search for the what when and whys of our hung sing lineage.

      1. CHINESE MASONIC SOCIETY
      2. CHINESE FREEMASONS (A LITTLE BIASED)
      3. The origins of the Tiandihui: the Chinese triads in legend and history By Dian H. Murray, Baoqi Qin
      4. Hung Society Or the Society of Heaven and Earth, J. S. M. Ward, W. G. Stirling
      5. Triad societies: western accounts of the history, sociology and linguistics ...By Kingsley Bolton, Christopher Hutton
      6. The Triad society; or, Heaven and earth association (1900) (download PDF version)
      7. The Great Triad By René Guénon, Henry D. Fohr, S. D. Fohr
      8. Encyclopedia of Freemasonry, Part 1 By Albert G. Mackey, H. L. Haywood
      9. The triads as business By Yiu Kong Chu
      10. CHINESE TRIAD SOCIETY AND FREEMASONRY
      11. Chinese 'Masonic' Society
      12. The Alleged Chinese 'Masonic' Lodges in Australia.

      13. CHINESE HIGHBINDERS
      14. Harper’s Weekly, February 13, 1886, page 103 (Illustrated Article)
      15. The Triad society; or, Heaven and earth association By William Stanton Thian Ti Hwui
      16. Twelve years in China; the people, the rebels, and the mandarins (1860)
      17. Popular movements and secret societies in China, 1840-1950 By Jean Chesneaux, Lucien Bianco
      18. Chinese Society in the Eighteenth Century By Susan Naquin, Evelyn Sakakida Rawski
      19. "Secret societies" reconsidered: perspectives on the social history of ...By David Ownby, Mary F. Somers Heidhues
      20. Brotherhoods and secret societies in early and mid-Qing China: the formation ...By David Ownby
      21. Triad Societies: Thian Ti Hwui : the Hung-League or Heaven-Earth-League : a ...By Kingsley Bolton, Christopher Hutton
      22. CHINA'S SECRET SOCIETIES.
      23. TWO DRAGONS FOR THE PEARL
      24. An Inquiry into the Elements for Criminal Organization Transplantation: The Triumph of Hung Society and The Fall of Qing Bang
      25. The Great Triad By René Guénon, Henry D. Fohr, S. D. Foh
      26. The Heaven and Earth Society and the Red Turban Rebellion in Late Qing China
      27. Triad Society, or Heaven and Earth Association
    Last edited by hskwarrior; 11-28-2011 at 11:49 AM.
    I'm pretty sure the only thing tongs do nowadays is make sure Chinese restaurants don't pay out tips to their waiters. - Pazman[/B]

    https://scontent-b-pao.xx.fbcdn.net/...8a&oe=52848D36

  9. #9
    Thank you for your input. I just went through my books and in the book Pak Mei kung fu, the myth & the martial art there is a small mention to Hung Mun but nothing linked to the salute or other hand signals.

  10. #10
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    thank you for your input. I just went through my books and in the book pak mei kung fu, the myth & the martial art there is a small mention to hung mun but nothing linked to the salute or other hand signals.
    let me look and see if i have a small pic of 5 postures found in gung fu that are related to the hung society.....bbiam.......

    HERE IS A SWEEP THAT IS A POSTURE REPRESENTING THE GREEN GRASS MONK HIMSELF....

    http://www.plumpub.com/kaimen/wp-con...tonggroup1.jpg
    I'm pretty sure the only thing tongs do nowadays is make sure Chinese restaurants don't pay out tips to their waiters. - Pazman[/B]

    https://scontent-b-pao.xx.fbcdn.net/...8a&oe=52848D36

  11. #11
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    some of these are found in my HSCLF



    #5 of the Five Hung Mun ancestors


    #4 of the Five HM Ancestors


    #3 of the Five HM Ancestors

    I'm pretty sure the only thing tongs do nowadays is make sure Chinese restaurants don't pay out tips to their waiters. - Pazman[/B]

    https://scontent-b-pao.xx.fbcdn.net/...8a&oe=52848D36

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