newbie training questions

[dodger87]

Originally posted by reneritchie
It's my understanding that joints need rest to rebuild just like muscles. You make a muscle or joint stronger by straining them and then letting them rebuild to deal with the greater strain. If you forget about the second part of the equation (rebuilding) you will not make your joints stronger, you will simply stress them over and over again, adding micro-tear to micro-tear, until something happens and a bad injury results (strained/torn joint which, due to less blood flow than a muscle, takes a long, long time and serious physio to properly rebuild).

When you are 18, you feel as though you are immortal and invincible. What you really are, however, is in a time delay and any abuse you think you can handle now will come back and haunt you when you hit 30, 40, 50, etc. (and wish you'd been more careful in your youth).

Equal parts work, rest, and nutrition. Miss any part of that, and you will likely suffer some way, some when.

How much rest is required? i thought one night's good sleep is enough. Is there a way to tell if i am over straining my joints? Is it really that bad? because i had an uncle from Vietnam (now in america) come visit us and he use to worked out on his arms and legs everyday when he was young and he was around 50ish when he visited us and he seemed in pretty fine condition.

[Nick Forrer]

As a general rule of thumb I would never train (as in weight train (obviously the intensity of the excercise/amount of weight you use plays a part)) the same body part two days in a row. Personally, I have been lifting weights for around 10 years now and I have found that to make continued progress (as in strength gains-extra reps and/or heavier weights) i musn't work out more frequently then once a week. Whenever I do I actually get weaker since my body hasn't had time to recover let alone grow from the previous work out. Obviously recovery ability varies from person to person. But lifting weights everyday is a sure fire recipe for overtraining. In short I subscribe to the view that to make strength gains your workouts should be intense, short and infrequent but consistent. Make sure you train to muscular failure and dont get caught up in doing loads of sets. You should also keep a training journal. This will help in monitoring your progress and to see the effect of any changes you decide to make.

I also reccommend any books by the late Mike Mentzer.

Hope this helps

Best
Nick

[Toby]

Originally posted by dodger87
i was actually comparing pushups to doing weights. i thought that pushups trained the joints more then weights did.

Your muscles don't know the difference between pushups and benchpress, apart from slightly different actions and different amount of resistance. For me, doing 30 pushups would (for all intensive purposes) be the same as doing 30 reps of 70-80kg on benchpress.

As to how much to train, well, I train every day. Same muscle groups every day. If you're interested, I do the PTP program. Works for me. I used to do 3 times a week with different muscles each time (chest & biceps, legs and abs, back and triceps). That worked well, too. Only problem for me was it was a hypertrophy workout, and I'd frequently get such tired muscles that it would impact my MA and other things, like riding my bike. The biggest benefit of PTP is the lack of tiredness/soreness. I'm also breaking PR's after lifting for 6 years.

If you're struggling to lift the same one day as you did the previous time, then you're probably overdoing it with your workout. You can, however, do a light workout to help the muscles recover. E.g. do benchpress up to 100% of 1RM one day, then the next day or the day after do a few sets @ 20-30% of your 1RM.

Last thing - concentrate on compound lifts. They're more functional. Squats, deadlifts, olympic lifts, pullups. Don't isolate muscles unless you're into bodybuilding or addressing a deficiency.

[dodger87]

Originally posted by Toby

Last thing - concentrate on compound lifts. They're more functional. Squats, deadlifts, olympic lifts, pullups. Don't isolate muscles unless you're into bodybuilding or addressing a deficiency.

sorry could you explain these exercises more? i don't really know what these nicknames mean.

If you're struggling to lift the same one day as you did the previous time, then you're probably overdoing it with your workout.

yeah i dont feel weaker the next day after i trained so i didn't think i was overstraining. and by the way i dont lift or train with weights i only throw my own weight around.

[IronFist]

Toby is correct.

[Edmund]

Dear Dodger87,

You've posed such a broad question. "Good" and "Bad" exercises are subjective to your goals. (Though there are some exercises that I would just consider bad in all cases.)

I don't see the point in recommending to you only compound lifts rather than isolation exercises (because you supposedly aren't a bodybuilder). Compound lifts could be as useful to you as a kick in the head depending on your goals.

Work out what your goals are and then choose exercises and routines based on that. Not sure why you consider what you are doing is training your joints. I don't think the pushups, situps etc. are doing that particularly.

[Toby]

Well, it depends. Compound exercises are usually the most beneficial for a number of reasons. Don't get me wrong - I used to do e.g. biceps curls on the preacher bench, standing reverse bicep curls and concentration dumbbell curls. Nowadays I'd prefer chinups. But whatever, I don't want to get in an argument over compound vs isolation.

dodger87, I can't really break it down more than that. I'm not going to try to explain the lifts if you don't already know them. You could get an injury if you don't do them properly. In a few short words, squats are putting the bar across your shoulders and squatting down. Deadlifts are lifting the bar up off the ground to waist level. Olympic lifts aren't my specialty but I will get into them eventually. Clean and jerks and snatches can be seen at the Olympics (duh!) or maybe if you get cable you'll see some lifting comp on TV that has them. C & J you lift the bar off the ground to your shoulders in one movement, then up over your head in the 2nd movement. Snatches you lift the bar from the ground straight up over your head. There are a few other Olympic lifts besides C&J's and snatches to look into. Great for power development. Pullups are like chinups but with your hands pronated (palms facing away). There's lots more to it all than that, but it sounds like you would need specialist advice and coaching to help you start a weights program.

[dodger87]

Originally posted by Toby
Well, it depends. Compound exercises are usually the most beneficial for a number of reasons. Don't get me wrong - I used to do e.g. biceps curls on the preacher bench, standing reverse bicep curls and concentration dumbbell curls. Nowadays I'd prefer chinups. But whatever, I don't want to get in an argument over compound vs isolation.

dodger87, I can't really break it down more than that. I'm not going to try to explain the lifts if you don't already know them. You could get an injury if you don't do them properly. In a few short words, squats are putting the bar across your shoulders and squatting down. Deadlifts are lifting the bar up off the ground to waist level. Olympic lifts aren't my specialty but I will get into them eventually. Clean and jerks and snatches can be seen at the Olympics (duh!) or maybe if you get cable you'll see some lifting comp on TV that has them. C & J you lift the bar off the ground to your shoulders in one movement, then up over your head in the 2nd movement. Snatches you lift the bar from the ground straight up over your head. There are a few other Olympic lifts besides C&J's and snatches to look into. Great for power development. Pullups are like chinups but with your hands pronated (palms facing away). There's lots more to it all than that, but it sounds like you would need specialist advice and coaching to help you start a weights program.

The thing is I don't want to do weights, i don't think weights is the ONLY way to train for MA. and i'm sure there are many people out there who don't use weights to train but throw their own weight around. Main reason i dont want to do weights is because i'm still pretty young and it might stunt my growth.

My goals are to have fast and powerful kicks and punches. Be a good fighter (self-defence). I dont really care about getting big muscles and stuff like that.

It seems some people are getting confused about some of my sentences. I meant to say that pushups train joints more then lifting weights or whatever. Well at least that is what i have been told, if i'm wrong you could please correct me.

[Toby]

No, weights are most certainly not the only effective training aid. But they are probably the most effective training aid to getting strong, and that has good carry-over to MA.

As to jumping, running, etc (in your last post and in the other thread), if that's really your goal, then train Olympic lifts. The reality is, they're the most effective exercises you can do for power. Also train sprints, bagwork and other specific drills targeting what you want to achieve. Might look into plyometrics, but you need a high baseline of fitness for that or you risk injury.

Weightlifting doesn't necessarily make you "getting big muscles and stuff like that". Depends on what sort of lifting you do. I do powerlifts on a strength program. Not designed to build mass at all, just strength.

If you're young, by all means don't weight train. I'm certainly no expert on age and weights, but it's not worth the risk. I think it's fine when you stop growing, so like 17-18 or so. Maybe do some research into it.

Pushups don't train the joints more than benchpress. Whoever said that was wrong. End of story.

[Edmund]

Originally posted by dodger87
My goals are to have fast and powerful kicks and punches. Be a good fighter (self-defence). I dont really care about getting big muscles and stuff like that.

Well looking at your goals, the main component you are missing is any actual martial arts training. That sort of stuff will be pretty helpful if you want to be a good fighter.

If anything, you should emphasize learning some fighting skills first and supplement that with conditioning exercises.

[anerlich]

Edmund is correct.

Fast and powerful kicks and punches are no good if you don't have the timing to apply them effectively. And fast and pwerful kicks and punches depend far more on effective technique than on strength.

Becoming a good fighter without practising fighting skills is about as likely as becoming a surfing champion by runnig marathons along the beach.

A person with moderate skills, training and experience will have it all over a fit person who has none (and the skill training generally adds to general fitness in any case). If both have some skill, then the attributes of conditioning and strength can make a difference.

Get thee to a fighting gym, school or academy.

[dodger87]

i've searched out quite a lot of martial arts schools already but i dont want to and am not allowed to join any this year because it is my final year in high school and will determine whether i get into a uni or not. so all i can do is just train at home.

anyways since i was overstraining myself before i've made a new routine. i train my arms/legs/abs/flexibility in one day, and on the two next days i train my fitness like skipping and running and that sorta stuff. and the cycle is repeated. What do you guys think? any suggestions?

[Gangsterfist]

I would recomend stretching everyday. Make sure you roll your hip sockets and your shoulder sockets as well.

Flexability is one of the most overlooked things in fitness and in martial arts. I know a guy who has trained many more years than I have and he cannot even touch his feet in a face to knee stretch. I still wouldn't want to fight the guy, but I think his martial arts would be even better if he had more flexability.

[Edmund]

Originally posted by dodger87
i've searched out quite a lot of martial arts schools already but i dont want to and am not allowed to join any this year because it is my final year in high school and will determine whether i get into a uni or not. so all i can do is just train at home.

anyways since i was overstraining myself before i've made a new routine. i train my arms/legs/abs/flexibility in one day, and on the two next days i train my fitness like skipping and running and that sorta stuff. and the cycle is repeated. What do you guys think? any suggestions?

Quite a few suggestions have been mentioned already.
I would say take a more formal approach to your routine. Time your runs, make note of how many reps of each exercise you can do, measure your flexibility and so on.



PS. Also, Andrew is correct. None of this will make you a good fighter

[reneritchie]

I've looked into this and it seems like if you don't go to failure, you can do pushups every day.