bruising and dit da jow

[travelsbyknight]

I used dit da jow before I did steel ring conditioning...and then I applied more dit da jow after I was done. I rubbed really hard for five minutes each time I applied the jow.


I still got a huge bruise on my arm though. Isn't jow supposed to keep that from happening? Maybe I was working too hard and broke too many blood vessels. I guess not even jow can prevent injuries 100%.

[Ging Mo Fighter]

its not magical, even the best western medication we have doesn't work even half the time (antibiotics, antacid etc etc)

i think its just meant to be a very subtle effect, the human body is very complicated and you cant always work miracles, even with the best medicines we have

[Ou Ji]

Jow is used to promote healing and toughen the body, not prevent injury. Rapidly healing the bruises and other damage means you can train again much sooner. It also heals much stronger when Jow is used. The process of busting up then rebuilding is what makes your body tougher. This can only happen over time with regular training. If you're bruised then continue with the Jow until it clears up. Good Jow will clear it up really fast.

[David]

The visible bruise is the bad blood coming away from the bones. You want that to happen .

Rgds,
David

[travelsbyknight]

I don't agree with your post, Ou Ji. This isn't karate where we hit stuff to build up scar tissue. The goal is to condition the hands and arms but not to change their outside appearance. The hands are supposed to remain soft but when you strike, they feel like steel. All these little bruises/injuries you acquire add up in the long run.

When conditioning the body, injury should be kept very very very minimal. That includes bruising. NO bruising is better than slight bruising.

[TenTigers]

You might not be using the jow correctly. It is not simply massaged into the bruise, There is an entire process, and specific technique. The area must be saturated with the jow-keep it wet. The injury is massaged in a circular motion, with pressure to break up the 'dead' blood and to stimulate circulation. The area is pressed, rubbed, and slapped to bring new blood to the region, ending with light massage to clear away dead blood. This cannot be learned from a post, but should be taught hands on. Wing Lam's book is a good source, however.

[travelsbyknight]

I was told to do something slightly differently than what you said. You said to massage the bruise in a circular motion where as I was told to massage away from my heart.

[joedoe]

Originally posted by travelsbyknight
I don't agree with your post, Ou Ji. This isn't karate where we hit stuff to build up scar tissue. The goal is to condition the hands and arms but not to change their outside appearance. The hands are supposed to remain soft but when you strike, they feel like steel. All these little bruises/injuries you acquire add up in the long run.

When conditioning the body, injury should be kept very very very minimal. That includes bruising. NO bruising is better than slight bruising.

I disagree - bruising is a normal part of MA training. In fact bruising is a normal part of most vigorous activities that entail some sort of contact. Eventually your body will adjust and the bruising will lessen, but to expect to train in a contact activity and not get bruised is a little unreasonable.

[Yum Cha]

For what its worth,
Hardening of the arms, fists, feet, shins, whatever is a process. Small steps over time as opposed to instant change. If you got huge bruises, most likely, you over did it a bit. It happens.

The fundamentals are circulation and massage, jau is an aid, not a magic cure.

I have been taught to massage away from the heart, so that any dead blood cells (clots) go into the hands or the feet where they are trapped in the small blood vessels, as opposed to returning to the heart or brain, where they can cause "problems" i.e. stroke, heart attack, etc.

However, a circular motion is used, with the upstroke being more gentle than the downstroke, if that makes sense. Quite often a cotton ball is used held between the thumb and forefinger.

The Jau has a warming effect, which opens the capilaries, increasing blood flow, increased blood flow brings healing, in the form of fresh blood and also releases the trapped dead blood (stasis) visible as bruises. The idea is to gently massage the tissue to move the dead blood out, and allow fresh blood in. You shouldn't massage to the point where you cause additional injury to the bruised area.

Over time, your tissue will "scar" inside, become tougher and be able to handle more impact without "crushing" and breaking up the capillaries that then bleed and cause the visible bruise. Don't worry, over time the scarring diminishes and you become a softie again, if you stop training.

Once you have trained up a bit, the bruising becomes less, and a 'preventative" treatment with jau after contact training releases any stasis, and no bruising becomes evident.

Now, this is not the be all and end all of herbal medicines, but a basic explanation of the basic principles from my own experience. Not "mystical" mumbo jumbo. Some jaus have additional additives which may cause various different effects, but that's getting into specialised treatment, like iron palm, etc.

Boxers have long enjoyed the benefits of a 'rubdown' after sparring, using witchazel or other western 'jau' like Ben Gay or whatever. Its the same fundamental treatment. Heat, circulation, massage, fresh blood to promote healing.

Have a look at the diagrams on http://www.kungfuoil.com, the illustration has a large version too, just click on the image.

[Ou Ji]

Karateka have nasty looking hands because they condition hard from the start and don't use Jow (a secret the Chinese did not pass on to Japan).

The key to conditioning is, like Yum Cha said, small steps over time. The cycle of 'minor injury - repair - minor injury - repair' is what toughens the body. As you progress you can go harder and harder.

An interesting side note: during Iron Palm training you're not supposed to 'spill your seed'. Zinc plays a major role in wound healing and it's prevelant in semen. Losing semen causes a dificiency of zinc so your body has touble healing the micro-tears and damage from the conditioning.

[brothernumber9]

some jows break up calcium deposits, so if for instance you are training to toughen up your shins or knuckles or forearems and you wish for the calcium deposits to develop than be sure to use a dit da that is best suited to help accordingly. which way to massage may depend on where bruising may occur and which way the blood flows along those points.

[Gold Horse Dragon]

Many good posts.
Correct training is what prevents major injury, not DDJ. Training must be done progressively increasing force over time. Training should not cause significant injury...if it does back off a little. A good jow should stop bleeding and yet increase blood circulation and get rid of bruising...paradox...but it is the herb combination that does it. As well it acts as a analgesic. A good jow along with correct training and massage will toughen up the tissues over time with no scar tissue formed at any point in the training.

Good luck in your training.

GHD

[travelsbyknight]

Within two days after I started this topic, the big azz bruises all but vanished. I applied jow twice a day and rubbed REALLY hard but downward.

Oh yeah, whoever said that bruising is good because it gets bad blood out of bones...you're on crack.

[travelsbyknight]

When conditioning a certain area...will a time ever come when bruising won't happen?

[Gold Horse Dragon]

Yes...but as the area becomes more resilient you will probably unconsciously increase the force...which means more bruising until the area adapts to the increase.

GHD