White Ape Steals Peach

[Oso]

yu shan, if I might interject: I asked about the placement of this set within Master Hu's curriculum and Jake said it was the first mantis form taught but if the student was brand new to kung fu/ma then there were several other sets that were learned first. Little Red Fist from the Shaolin corpus was one he mentioned specifically.

IMHO, BYTT has some very readily available applications that make the set very user friendly to begin with and lends the impression of 'basicness' that belies the more intricate applications that will come with time and deeper study of the movement.

[Tainan Mantis]

Yushan Oso,
Glad you liked the form.
I don't think the word basics apply to this form or hardly any other form of PM for that matter.
They are arrangements of tecniques, some more techniques than others.

A straight punch and hook punch can be the tecnique to win the fight.
If the helped you defeat your opponent can we call them basic?

OK, sorry for all the pontificating.

A better term is essential or important, not basic.

I have seen this performed by Shandong super Mantis men and it looked very not basic.

In my opinion the form Bai Yuan Toe Tao has a lot of essential PM techniques.

These essentials can be built open with other techniques, so in that sense it can be called basic.
But if you never learn another form but this, and how to fight with it, that may be all you need.

I learned this form from my first PM Shrfu, known as Art D.
He learned it in Shandong from several of his trips there.

Shrye knows a somewhat different version though closely related, as wel as the HK 7* version.

I like the Art D version the most though.

[Oso]

Yushan Oso,
Glad you liked the form.
I don't think the word basics apply to this form or hardly any other form of PM for that matter.
They are arrangements of tecniques, some more techniques than others.

A straight punch and hook punch can be the tecnique to win the fight.
If the helped you defeat your opponent can we call them basic?

i would say that 'basicness' would lie in the principle.

the straight punch that connects the mass of your body to someones face is pretty basic whereas the straight punch that intercepts an incoming attack while on the way to said face is more complicated in principle.





I think the tendancy to look at the first of anything as the most basic of that set is what we are experiencing. Little Four Hands in our curriculum is certainly full of things to apply differently than the 2 person shows us but colloquially we look at and refer to it as our introduction to basic pong lai mantis. If I'm way off base in this comparison please correct me.

I feel pretty sure that Jake was just showing us rudimentary application of the set so we would get a feel for how it should be used.

I dug the fact that the first line drill we did is a method of entering and striking that I've been using for a very long time now.


are both versions Master Shr knows in the curriculum? or does he favor one over the other?

[Judge Pen]

Originally posted by Oso

I feel pretty sure that Jake was just showing us rudimentary application of the set so we would get a feel for how it should be used.

I dug the fact that the first line drill we did is a method of entering and striking that I've been using for a very long time now.

I think foundational or fundamental might be approriate since it seems to encapsule the essence of the PM style. I also dug the first line drill excercises, since that technique is a staple of my sparring applications also. It was nice to drill new combonations, throws and chin na out of this technique as well.

[Oso]

good points on the semantics...I don't think any of us considered it simple by any means.

[MantisCool]

I think there is a confusion on the Bai Yuan Tou Tao!

The Bai Yuan Tou Tao of PRC is the Tang Lang Tou Tao of HK.

I believe Yu Shan refers to the Bai Yuan Tou Tao of HK which is a short form and thus looks basic. We only learn this form after a few years of Mantis. It is also the shortest.

If you are talking about the BYTT of PRC or TLTT of HK than it is an advanced form.

[B.Tunks]

Mantis Cool,

I think Yushan learnt a Taijimeihua version of PRC Bai Yuan Tou Tao if I'm not mistaken?

bt

[B.Tunks]

Yushan,

No offence taken of course! I am not an old woman (though some may disagree). I get your meaning.

BT

[Ming Yue]

B.Tunks

It was the taiji meihua version that we learned from Mr. Burroughs.

very curious about Oso's question - is there a version in the PL curriculum?

[18elders]

yes there is, there is also a 2 person set to it

[Ming Yue]

thanks Shrfu! Looking forward to seeing it.

[MantisCool]

B Tunks

If it is a Taijimeihua version of PRC's BYTT or our TLTT than it is an advanced form. It might looks basic but the combination has very good linear progression. Meaning it is very much like an attacking form.

[yu shan]

MantisCool

Shifu Tunks is correct, it is Taiji Meihua. Though I just learned this form, it does seem VERY aggressive. I`ve learned the basic 101 applications, and I`m curious to see what Tainan Mantis shares. My Shrbu holds this form in high regards. MC, if you go back to page two, you will see the lineage of this form. Again, sorry if I came across as thinking this is an easy form, I should know better. Kind of reacted to the Teachers stories about the form and my peers.

Tainan Mantis & B. Tunks

Nothing in Mantis is easy for me! I appreciate any morsel of information thrown my way. Mr. Tunks, thank you sir for getting my meaning. BTW, I am curious about the BYTT form I`ve seen in Taiwan executed by Shr ZhengZhong`s students. So what is it that we see?