qigong from a book

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

I give you treasures, you give me smart ass comments.

I show you the original Lohan hands and you don't see.

...

What you offer is your opinion of your experience, both of which are prejudiced by your preferences and inclinations, prejudiced by your standards and the available evidence in your area.. It is noteworthy that you assume that you have discovered some ancient wisdom that surpasses all others.. Differing wisdoms and differing styles affect differing people in differing ways.. Conceptually, your point of view would be more acceptable as conversation/dialogue than the rhetoric of supremacy as currently presented..

You have a defensible point regarding the current state of Kung Fu.. You give an example that "you" find valuable according to your standards.. another point valuable by someone else's standards might be.. current Kung Fu suffers from the distractions of current society's marketing of nonsensical nonessential notions of entertainment.. or, too many people blabbing about it and not "doing" it.. etc, etc... The point is that you make a common beginners' mistake, your new-found is universal and should be everyone's truth.. it is simply "your" truth, not necessarily valid for others.. You would do well to consider that others feel like you do.. when told they are wrong, they get defensive.. it is always better to just present the evidence that supports your beliefs, than judging others and letting emotions interfere with good dialogue..

Whatever was practiced in the past, whatever life offered to our ancestors.. is not what is available today.. Much was lost in the past due to exclusivity, the unyielding assertion that "mine is better than yours", and the secret keeping.. Today we are fortunate to be able to train in many arts, to evaluate their value and personalize our individual inclinations with what works best for us.. any of it that has merit will mature into a usable personal Art according to the dedication of the practitioner..

After more than 30 years in MA i still evaluate and re-evaluate my current and past experiences, i still seek new experiences and wisdoms.. and, i don't assume that i have "the answer".. and, i am always skeptical of those that feel that they do "have the answer".. i am always open to someone that says "let's check this out", as opposed to "hey, you're wrong and i'm right"..

Be well...

[backbreaker]

Yeah, the thing about " why kungfu is not as effective" is that it is a response to these forums. But if you ever saw the shaolin monk who stood on one finger you'd see his skill and dedication. What I'm saying is that I haven't seen that good ancient real maethods are just available antwhere. I am sure that there are other good methods and have been shown on other forums that even some people here have high qigong abilities; If someone wants to explain them or show a little of them fine, or explain the differences between different styles, but don't blame me for continueing this thread with excellent sites, I am not saying to become monks and live in caves or to only do this style , or only do that style, I am presenting methods I found that people have made available on video, do what you want. And that doesn't change the fact that some people here are totally full of it, and I just can't help but think their methods of alternative healing are probably weak. As you' may have seen on other forums, sometimes agression is the only way, and second, I show you powerful methods which theories and practices are similar, at least I show it the best that I can currently with what is available on the internet. No one else has even done that, just talk and impressions like " the Tao warns not to forsake the near and simple, for the exotic", well exuse me while I vomit. So you say that I have prejudices, and I say that it is the others here and even you with the prejudices of your experiences, because everything is confirmed by my experiences, you are the ones confused by prejudices, I do Yang Taiji, Real Chen Taiji, O mei qigong, Kunlun wild goose, Damo gong, Muay Thai, some qinway, and falun gong, and I'm telling you that they are all connected for the most part with the possible exception of Muay Thai. I tell you these are the best and confirm each other, and you only criticize me with weak arguments and criticisms. So , I present to you the original LOhan hands, where are the better ways that are supposedly all over the place?

[backbreaker]

Originally posted by TaiChiBob
Greetings..


...

After more than 30 years in MA i still evaluate and re-evaluate my current and past experiences, i still seek new experiences and wisdoms.. and, i don't assume that i have "the answer".. and, i am always skeptical of those that feel that they do "have the answer".. i am always open to someone that says "let's check this out", as opposed to "hey, you're wrong and i'm right"..

Be well...

Yeah. Think about it. I'm not the one saying so and so is no good, etc. What I'm saying is that the criteria I have that I judge qigong, indicates that the real versions are the best, not the modern ones, but that is not to say that qigong that is real cannot be modernized for the general public, because most ancient qigongs are now modified for the public anyways to a degree, but hopefully someone has the full systems also, for purposes beyond just the personal cultivation. But I think what you are saying is that not everything is for everybody, and you are right.

It is not my intention to insult or be mean, but at the same time I get more posts out of this, and I'm not gonna just be quiet when people are bashing without reason, or are misinformed or confused.

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

As you' may have seen on other forums, sometimes agression is the only way, and second, I show you powerful methods which theories and practices are similar, at least I show it the best that I can currently with what is available on the internet. No one else has even done that, just talk and impressions like " the Tao warns not to forsake the near and simple, for the exotic", well exuse me while I vomit. So you say that I have prejudices, and I say that it is the others here and even you with the prejudices of your experiences, because everything is confirmed by my experiences, you are the ones confused by prejudices

Now, normally, i wouldn't even consider responding to this sort of nonsense.. but, i seem to think you might have some redeeming qualities.. Absolutely, everyone has prejudices/preferences, and everyone relates to their own experiences.. but, the phrase "because everything is confirmed by my experiences", is just a tad egocentric if not down-right arrogant.. don't you think we each feel the same way, that our experiences confirm our beliefs.. do you believe that you have some "gift" that allows you to characterize others in such a demeaning way.. sure, there have been some less than friendly posts by others in here, but.. does that empower you to respond in kind?.. is it that easy to get you psyched-out?..

"I tell you these are the best and confirm each other".. Really?.. Are you such an authority that we should abandon years of training and our own experiences because "you" said it was so?.. Now, if you had suggested that you found value in these ways, and offered to share data with us that we use to make our own minds up about such claims, that would be acceptable and even invited.. "No one else has even done that", now, seriously.. there is such a vast wealth of resources on these forums that i can't help but question your ability to comprehend that which is presented for your benefit.. Many people offer a wealth of good data and resources here.. but, you assume that you are privy to "the Best"? Learn to get along, learn to actually communicate, you could be a valuable contributor to threads.. but, not until you learn respect for the opinions of others..

Sincerely,
Bob

[backbreaker]

1. I'm saying if I'm a TKD guy, or a KARATE guy, or a sopposed standardised TCM guy, or in many cases a IMA guy even, I wouldn't have much to say here. All I did was say exactly what you said, saying that I found extreme value in these practices, but others proclaim that it is not so. So, I think you are wannabe experts for the most part on all of these forums.

2. My responses have nothing to do with ego or that I am the best , no. There is a saying by Taiji masters, " It's not me that's good, it's the art that's good". BJJ people I have also heard said that. And IMO there is more incorrect on the internet forums than correct. Mostly it's just talk, with alot of incorrect. I am no longer backing down, or being nice, because I think someone I know could possibly be watching, I don't care. Basically, I just have to wonder about the people on the forums who criticize well respected and known people, how the hell good are these members? They must be true master experts

[backbreaker]

These forums seem to be prone to arguments or trolling. If you want me to stop being arrogant there is a simple formula someone said on another forum, and that is don't feed the trolls. Myself I am not so bothered by trolling, the only people who can bug me are moderators But yeah, I don't want to come off as too arrogant or confrontational, or that I won't listen, but...

[Buddy]

<<These forums seem to be prone to arguments or trolling. If you want me to stop being arrogant there is a simple formula someone said on another forum, and that is don't feed the trolls.

Ah, you admit you're a troll. Now you can just admit to being a boob too.

<<Myself I am not so bothered by trolling, the only people who can bug me are moderators

And when your mom gives you a time out.

<<But yeah, I don't want to come off as too arrogant or confrontational, or that I won't listen, but...

There are none so blind as those who will not see.

[backbreaker]

Yang Jwing Ming, B.K. Frantziz, John Painter, Erle Montague, Al Colangelo, Wong Kiew Kit, Li Hongzhi, Mantak Chia, and even people who aren't known in PM, have all been shown as frauds on the internet by warriors , especially at your favorite hangout , and here. Alot of what is said on forums is made up. Now I can't say about everyone of them, and I don't know them, but it is not acceptable that people think they are better than them bacause they do wrestling or spar

[Buddy]

Good to see you've come out of your shell. now if you could just wipe the slime trail behind you...

<<No not at all. WHat I'm saying is that everyone trolls from time to time. I use trolling and so do others. Second, you know my position on Gao fighters vs. the equivalent mindboxers or monastery art fighters, so you don't impress me.

What does Gao style have to do with it?


<<Set some fight up with other schools or shut up, simple. You guys really have no authoriy to critisize others, or even think you are better, unless you fight those people, or everyone you say you are better than backs out.

I'm pretty sure my student Bai He offered to clean your clock. You'd rather me instead?

<<Is just the Gao master that can fight? Ohhhhhh. And there is a website that has pictures of so called masters they have knocked out. Anyone can lose, nothing to fear, unless you are suckered and get you leg broken in sparring.

Fear? You supposedly do Chen style Taiji? Where's the website of you or your teacher knocking someone out. Don't you see what a stupid remark that is?

<<There's an interestin article about rice burners vs. nitro.

Ah, nitro? Can we just keep a coherant train of thought here?

<< I mean geesh, you think Bai He should fight me in a street fight? Are you suicide bombers? You lost all credibility when Bai Hui challenged me to a street fight. I mean come on, all you have is your master, nutriders, but Gao can't beat mindboxing and you just don't like me.

Bai He would clean your clock. What does mindboxing have to do with anything? But you're right, I don't like you.

<<But I can't really go around every forum starting ****, so emptyflower truly sucks, and will forever remain useless and unproductive to getting anything good to happen( fights between schools)


What does EF have to do with this. This is about you. You're a boob.


<<I mean ****, if the gracies can do it......... **** EF, they suck and they are BJJ nutriders, and that's nothing against bjj, I actually like the style, but that's just an opion, opinions don't count.

Wait... Gracies? BJJ? what the hell are you yammering about?

<<Second, win lose or draw, I gotta develop "wall" energy, there's no such issues or "the street', " reality based training", and such because you are as confident as you are hardcore( not to say you should be dumb, you fight how you're trained, which means moves and footwork from the form).

Dude, you really need to get back on those meds. "Wall" energy? I'm not hardcore, just a guy.

<<Thirdly of all, I am not an expert or master and neither are you

Well you don't know what I am or am not.

, <<but I do Yang Taiji, push hands, double ended spear, kunlun sword, O mei qigong, Muay Thai, Wild goose qigong to the high intermediate and advanced levels, Chen style xin jia yi lu, and some xin jia er lu and broadsword, so do the math.

This must be "new" math because it adds up to a load of crap so far. What, can't get good enough at just one of them?

<<I'm nobody but so are you; at least I'm not a wannabe expert

Really? I think that's exactly what you are.

<<Emptyflower reality based self defense PUNK know it all.

Uhh.? Do you know ANYTHING about Gaoshi Baguazhang?

<< I know in a close fight nothing is set in stone, there is no "technique" that works or doesn't, only the training( qi). AND IT"S MAINLY THE LEVEL OF THE FIGHTER. Actually I never intended when I first came to emptyflower to be your enemy at all, but the cards fell to the sides that they fell, and the lines were drawn, fine but emptyflower sucks and they are not at all the authorities they say they are.

Well there you go. You've been talking to the "authorities" again. Try tin foil in your cap.

<<I don't have such a problem with arrogance or that I want to advertise my web site. Nor do I PM moderators.

WHAT?

<<Think about for real, emptyflower has the least amount oof people who can fight of ANY forum around, to the point that sparring on a Saturday class gets you mad respect.

How many did you fight? You think sparring is fighting?

<<Emptyflower has a few fighters out of thousands of members, the least of any forum around, I am not at all scared of your average 20 year IMA guy

Gosh, son, I'm 47.


<<Anyways falun gong is the most powerful style. You can get high level energy incredibly fast, and it is suited and put together so anyone can do it.

Falun Gong is a cult. But if you like stuff geared for the lowest common denominator, be my guest.

<<This is not the case in most other styles, practices will then have to be modified for each individual.

Sure, god knows I'm upset that my teachers taught me what was best for me.

<<Falun gong is also the safest but highest level practice. The people who criticize it are wannabe qigong experts, or religious fanatics who can't see past their selfish , self centered notions, or that there is something more for real out there, and it's simple and not about money or complex levels, 5 sets of high level exercises

It's all about the chicks, right?
Buddy

[backbreaker]

Lamest point by point ever. 0.0

Why is bai hui so tough? I don't fear most emptyflower fighters, but I would simply be a Thai fighter before a EF IMA fighter.

I am not referring to anything about my teachers knocking people out, they don't do that, but there are many videos of my Muay Thai trainer putting people out for 4 minutes. But my IMA teachers lineages are well documented so they cannot be bashed like the others I mentioned in the last post.

Nitro? I have nothing to do with that at all , or that group, but I can say EF sucks compared to the other internet forums

Why is Bai Hui so tough?

Yeh, you don't have wall energy and that's one of the only things I care about.

Emptyflower thinks sparring is fighting as evident in the street vs. sport debate. In other words alot of vocal posters are confused.

I am good in everything I do. I'm just not a fighter, but really , I'm not especially concerned about that. What are you talking about anyways cleaning my clock are you gonna seek me out and fight me? I'm not just street fighting at the drop of a hat cause someone challenges me and there aren't any rules or rounds anyways so it actually means not near as much though as a real fight.

And you really don't know that much qigong. Falun gong is better than what you do. You cannot call something a cult that is about doing your best in society, being responsible to society, AND HAS NO ORGANIZTION, just people practice in the parks together, cultivation has nothing to do with anyone but you, is IMA a cult? Judging from emptyflower the answer is clearly yes in that particular case.

[backbreaker]

So, you're as tough as markus brinkman? ( nothing against him or his skill) And you're gonna give me a lickin' because I dissed the EF

[Buddy]

Look, you make it quite clear you are a complete lunatic.

<Why is bai hui so tough?

Bai He. Or Pete if you prefer. Look you came on bashing emptyflower.com and Peter pulled your dress up. You talked smack and he called you on it. Tough was your line. You can't imagine a point then rail against it.


<<I don't fear most emptyflower fighters, but I would simply be a Thai fighter before a EF IMA fighter.

Well it's really just specualtion isn't it. It might be more amusing if you had better talk-fu.

<<I am not referring to anything about my teachers knocking people out, they don't do that, but there are many videos of my Muay Thai trainer putting people out for 4 minutes.


OK by that logic, can I just post a website of Roberto Duran creaming some jamoke?

<<But my IMA teachers lineages are well documented so they cannot be bashed like the others I mentioned in the last post.


Lineage? Is Chen Fake coming back to stick up for you? My lineage can beat your lineage.


<<Nitro? I have nothing to do with that at all , or that group, but I can say EF sucks compared to the other internet forums

You brought it up! So EF sucks as compared to the guys-who-like- to-dress-up-like-sailormoon forums?

<<Yeh, you don't have wall energy and that's one of the only things I care about.

What about crown moulding energy?

<<Emptyflower thinks sparring is fighting as evident in the street vs. sport debate. In other words alot of vocal posters are confused

You know, emptyflower is a website, not a person.

<<I am good in everything I do. I'm just not a fighter, but really

Your second statement negates your first.

<<I'm just not a fighter, but really , I'm not especially concerned about that.

And yet you write so much about it.

<<What are you talking about anyways cleaning my clock are you gonna seek me out and fight me?

You're not serious.

<<I'm not just street fighting at the drop of a hat cause someone challenges me and there aren't any rules or rounds anyways so it actually means not near as much though as a real fight.

Someone jumps your **** and you're complaining about rules and rounds? We have a different idea about what a real fight is.

<<And you really don't know that much qigong. Falun gong is better than what you do

Nyah Nyah.
You have no idea what I do. I can move any part of my body at will. I can purposefully open and close my joints and the individual vertabra of my spine. And I can make a young woman sigh. Can Falun Gong do that?

<<You cannot call something a cult that is about doing your best in society, being responsible to society, AND HAS NO ORGANIZTION, just people practice in the parks together, cultivation has nothing to do with anyone but you, is IMA a cult? Judging from emptyflower the answer is clearly yes in that particular case.

Well I can't speak for the site but Falun Gong has organization, has done nothing for society and is a cult you boob.

<<So, you're as tough as markus brinkman? ( nothing against him or his skill) And you're gonna give me a lickin' because I dissed the EF

Well I'm pretty sure Marcus has nothing to do with EF but the answer is no, I am not. From what I hear Marcus hits too hard for me. But I tire of this. I'll let someone with greater stamina bait you. Your every reply just proves my point. Ta ta.

[backbreaker]

No, lol at you. Yes falun gong does all that, but falun gong is way more powerful, because the natural energy does it from the beginning, and that's what counts, so falun gong is way better than your minor neigong, it's about the power of the energy currents, and falun gong is the most powerful, almost. Qigong goes from large movements, to small, to none. The meditation is the best. What you describe will take you 10 years to get to beginning level of falun gong. That is true. Falun gong is safe but advanced, it's really incredible that it can be made available like this. That takes a real master to ensure it can be done. Now , just the beginning falun conjoined hands posture is way more powerful than anything in Taiji or IMA. Wuji posture, standing pole, neigong, 100 days reverse breathing, dantien rotations, chan si gong? Nope they don't compare to falun gong, falun gong has so many good effects, because the energy flows so strongly from the begginning. The energy must lead the movements, internally and externally, otherwise you may have excellent internal control, but it is still just physical exercise and not truly qigong or meditation. Just the conjoined hands posture can instantly blast open the ming men completely at the highest level.


You are the one confused about real life and fighting. No one can pull my dress as you say up. And I never went on emptyflower bashing; that's what your crew does. You are the one nutriding lineages. I can kick your asses just on pure natural talent, but I got alot more than that. You seem to be a typical 20 year IMA guy who can't fight. And definately a wannabe qigong expert who isn't even at the level of a beggining falun gong student level.

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

WHY!!!! why such nonsense.. Warriors? hardly! an embarassing display of name-calling..

There is nothing magical about Falun Gong.. the magic is in the student.. the same mindset that backbreaker has toward Falun Gong would work equally well in any other QiGong.. the system is dependent on the student's intent.. Ultimately the energy is "formless", our trivial attempts to confine it to form is just a step in the process.. to see the form as the goal or only "way" is to miss the real value.. Everyone will believe their investment in their style(s) is best, actually.. it is themselves that make the process work.. if you want to make a statement about a system, it is better to say that "you" have used a particular system to achieve "your" understanding of this or that.. it doesn't make one system better or worse.. it only demonstrates what "you" were able to accomplish..

Be well..