8 chain punch of Wah Lum Mantis

[18elders]

I think first we have to have solid proof that 8 chain punch even came from wah lum's LKS and was not something MC added or obtained from one of his kung fu friends.

[ironfenix]

i agree with steve.

and for hualin, i remember reading somewhere where 8 punches was listed under baat choy faat, and 8 chain punch was list as baat solin kyun or something like that. but that is my weird memory opening up something that i have not thought about for many years... and i have not the slightest idea where i read that.

[Yao Sing]

Should be Baat Leen Choy, that would be 8 Chain (or Linked) Punch. I have no clue as to the origin but entry level basics are probably about the same whatever the style.

MC did say that he didn't have a lot of forms when he started teaching so I would think he had more simplified exercises (7 Kicks, 16 Hands, maybe Little Mantis) and individual techniques. Basics and a couple of forms like the old old days.

[yu shan]

I have always been fond of Little Mantis form, but you can have 8-chain punch.

[Yao Sing]

I think first we have to have solid proof that 8 chain punch even came from wah lum's LKS and was not something MC added or obtained from one of his kung fu friends.

Don't mean to argue but what does it matter? All of MC's Wah Lum did not come from LKS and it's not a secret. And what he learned from his KF elders may have come from LKS also since they trained before he did.

Wah Lum isn't a complete system passed down intact generation after generation. It's a village style based on a combination Tan Tui (LKS family style) and Northern Praying Mantis (from the monestary in the Wal Lum district). It was taught in the south by a professional escort (bodyguard) who most likely incorporated anything he picked up during his professional career.

MC's elders, mostly uncles as LKS was hired by his father to teach and protect the village (extended family), passed on what they knew to him since he was the youngest. This did not happen in a void as there were many influences in the Guangdong area at the time. For a northern style to remain complete without outside influence in southern China is probably impossible. And it's not readily known whether any other 'teachers' are involved in what was incorporated into the current Wah Lum system. That's the CLF connection.

Hope that clears up a few things up although I am not the official historian so feel free to believe what you want.

Edit: And to avoid confusion for those who don't know, since this is a very old thread, I'm Hua Lin Laoshi.

[18elders]

It doesn't really matter to me, but to try to link wah lum to tcpm then i think it is important where 8 chain punch came from. if he got it from choy li fut or one of his hung gar friends then it is hard to say 8 chain punch came from tcpm. that was my original point.

[Yao Sing]

Ok, fair enough. I leave those things to the historians like Keven. It's all interesing but I'm more concerned with damaging the human body with the least effort.

It's such a basic exercise it could have come from anywhere, Tan Tui maybe. I did similar in Karate. Haven't seen it as such in CLF.

Somebody should post a clip of it in the main forum and see what the masses think.

You know, 36 Hands was created to compete in southern tournaments. So how does a northern style practitioner create a southern form? Obviously he knows some southern style kung fu. So I'm sure there was a southern influence in the beginning. Whatever came after that could be all southern for all we know.

[Yao Sing]

WTF is this??!! I was looking to see if it was on youtube already.

Karate 8 Chain Punch?

Weird angles though.

[18elders]

that video was hilarious, someone needs to strip that black belt off the guy

[Yao Sing]

Found Wah Lum Beng Bu.

[mooyingmantis]

Found Wah Lum Beng Bu.

I wonder if this was a creation of Shifu Chan? It has only a few moves similar to HK Seven Star Bung Bu and even less in common with Meihua versions of Beng Bu.

Nice looking form though, regardless of the origin.

[Yao Sing]

I never even recognized it as Beng Bu until Kevin pointed it out. I do see where WL does variations of moves found in other NPM styles. Since MC has a bunch of manuscripts, and knows how to interpret them, I sometimes get the impression that some of the moves are the interpreted version of standard NPM moves.

Like the waist chop, I believe WL has it's own version that would fit the description but look different. There are others too.

I really don't think MC created it though. It's probably one of the few forms he brought with him when he first came here.

[18elders]

i have seen 2 different versions, one version was from chan wan ching. they are pretty close.

[mickey]

Greetings,

Question:

Baat Leen Choy= Eight Chain (Connected, Linked, Continuous) Hammers?

Edit: I did some small web based research using the Eight Hammers and found a thread that links it to Taiji Praying Mantis, the style developed by Grandmaster Chiu Chuk Kai. Look at paragraph seven, Master Fong lists all eight hammers (fist techniques):

http://www.i-chuan.net/pages2/Choy8.html

Do the hammers line up with what you have?

More: In the "Master Praise" section of Tornado Broadswords (if not there then it is in the First Fist Form Book) Grandmaster Chiu openly acknowledged that he and Grandmaster Chan corresponded with each other. If these punches line up, then is it possible that Grandmaster Chiu may have been the source.

Please notice that I am not saying anything declarative about the connection other than the possibility.


mickey

[yu shan]

A reliable source told me that Chan Pui use to visit Master Chiu Chuk Kai. Who knows, maybe there was an exchange of information. I always had a hunch all those Hong Kong Masters in those days maybe shared.

Yao, I learned Big Mantis from Sean Cochran. This version you put up is similar, but the one Sean taught has more details and done alot more powerful. Note: this fellow was probably just showing the form. Anywho, you can clearly see the beng bu. Thinking about breaking this one out for old times sakes!

Merry Christmas!

Jim