Greetings,
If the correspondences line up, I'd find it amusing because Mantis108 has had a fascination about Wah Lum's influences for years and all he had to do was look in his own back yard, for starters; unless he knew all along.
mickey
Greetings,
If the correspondences line up, I'd find it amusing because Mantis108 has had a fascination about Wah Lum's influences for years and all he had to do was look in his own back yard, for starters; unless he knew all along.
mickey
I've been wanting to catch up to you about that. Last time I was in Tampa I didn't have time to visit anyone but maybe next time.
I've talked with students from early days that started out with what's currently considered advanced sets. Maybe he needed some beginner material so he could move his core sets to the higher levels.
Also, I don't know anything about the guy in the clip or where he learned it but it seems to be about the same as I learned but maybe like you said missing a little detail. Haven't looked that closely at it.
Mickey
In the First Form book the forward by Shek Kin calls it Shantung Praying Mantis as does Chiu Chuk Kai in his forward in the Tornado Broadsword book. CCK also said he never met him but only corrosponded. However, Paul Kwan (TCPM) wrote a forward in the First Form book also so there's two TCPM connections.
Yao Sing,
If you read my post carefully, I never wrote they met. I did write, like yourself, that they corresponded with each other.
mickey
Thanks for keeping it civil guys, I can tell from previous posts that these kinds of issues can raise emotions.
I'm grateful that there seems to be some useful stuff coming up in this thread. I need to get those three books mentioned as well.
In relation to 8 Chain Punch, it was taught to me as a "basic exercise" of which I have heard there were/many. Some of the people in my school have referred to 8 Chain Punch as "9th Basic Exercise" but only rarely. None of them consider it a form but it does have a name and people work on it and keep it handy.
I think you're reading way too much into all this. Eight chain punch is one of those forms people make up to put in their curriculums because they don't have any beginner's sets for newbs to start off with. The same goes for Little Mantis and Sixteen Hands. (I learned some Wah Lum from a guy in the early 80's-those sets along with Eight Kicks, Single stick and broadsword))
The Karate guy (United Studios Shaolin Kempo)doing it is because Steve DeMasco studied with Yao Li in Boston and brought the wah-lum forms into his teaching for his advanced students. They mixed it in with some of the Hung-Ga/Fu Jow forms he learned from Ng Tak Wah, hence the Hung-Gar-amatized opening.
Last edited by TenTigers; 12-23-2011 at 06:39 PM.
"My Gung-Fu may not be Your Gung-Fu.
Gwok-Si, Gwok-Faht"
"I will not be part of the generation
that killed Kung-Fu."
....step.
It's funny how these forms go around. I used to teach it, but modified it somewhat, taught it at a Chinese Center to the children. One of those kids evidently taught it to Sifu Gau (the wushu guy who played the Marshal in Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon,) who now teaches my modified version to HIS students! I further modified it to better fit in with the foundational skills I wanted to teach and it is our beginner's first form,"Siu Sup Ji Kuen."
"My Gung-Fu may not be Your Gung-Fu.
Gwok-Si, Gwok-Faht"
"I will not be part of the generation
that killed Kung-Fu."
....step.
Yao Sing,
I reread your post. My apologies.
mickey
HAHAHA!!
I love that one Yao Sing.
With regard to the Shantung Mantis reference, I found that to be the way the older generation referred to different styles-- by their place of origin.
mickey
Just in case some of you missed this post on Wah Lum's older forms.
Here are the original 12 forms of Lee Kwan Shan.
The Cantonese as it was given to me by an elder of MC Chan, the Mandarin is my addition.
1.bung bo -beng bu AKA big mantis
2.lan jeet -lan jie
3.baht zhao -ba zhou
4.tam toy -tan tuei
5.lin wahn jurng -lien huan zhang? (continuous palms)
6.teet bay sow -tieh men suan- iron door bolt AKA Little Mantis
7.dai fan che -da fan che
8.yat lo lin wahn tam toy - yi lu lien huan tan tuei- first route continuous tan tuei
9.yee lo lin wahn tam toy - second route continuous tan tuei
10.saam lo lin wahn tam toy- third route continuous tan tuei
11.yau ling kuen
12.yin ji chuen lum
Number six on the list is known by most as Little Mantis, but that is just a nickname. The true name of the form is Iron Door Bolt.
I have always wondered if this is a link from Wah Lum's Iron Door Bolt to an older generation of Mantis.
I have an article on this subject here Iron Door Bolt which talks about where the name and technique Iron Door Bolt come from in my own research.
The difference being that I have only found Iron Door Bolt as a technique, while in Wah Lum it is clearly a form. But, could that be a form named after a technique?
In the way that "White Ape Steals the Peach" was a technique, but it is also a form?
Richard A. Tolson
https://www.patreon.com/mantismastersacademy
There are two types of Chinese martial artists. Those who can fight and those who should be teaching dance or yoga!
53 years of training, 43 years of teaching and still aiming for perfection!
Recovering Forms Junkie! Even my twelve step program has four roads!
they are 2 different masters with the same name.
And since he spent time hiding out after killing some notorious bandits that might not be his real name. There was some evidence of him teaching in Vietnam I believe but what really is known of the man before his teaching and escort adventures. They seemed to change their names quite a bit in those days.
Lee Kwan Shan - the early years.