where does wing chun get power?

[Knifefighter]

Originally posted by Ernie
train it with gear first silly get the timing and distance then get in the ring and work it with a boxer , just pull it get the feel but if you get the over amped knuckle head then let him have a taste and he will calm down

catch the tip of my knee and down they go were is all that power now

i first started figureing this stuff out sparring with thai fighters...

So, you are training with boxers who are gloved and wrapped. Yet you have broken their wrists "many times" with elbow destructions...
And Thai fighters are dropping when they happen to land a kick on your raised knee...
Is that what you are saying?

[Ernie]

So, you are training with boxers who are gloved and wrapped. Yet you have broken their wrists "many times" with elbow destructions...
And Thai fighters are dropping when they happen to land a kick on your raised knee...
Is that what you are saying?


ha so we are reaching for extemes o.k. i'll play

i have used pain infliction and still use it all the time yes

like anything i have control and can injure to degree
just like when you drop your big power shots you can pull it

so by useing the a litle foot work and fadeing i can dissapate the shot

if i lean in a bit even through the glove i have sprained boxers wrist yes never broke it

i to when i was on the recieveing end of the distructions has my wrist sprained a few times '' feel to appreciate thing ''

i have been dropped by knee distruction and shut down many thai kicks

to be honest i simply cheat , since i have no desire to compete in any type of event , i have no need for legal techniques , once your free of those chains you can really dial in things that simply circumvent all the b.s.

but like anything if you don't get in and work it off fast strong people you won't get it

so when i would spar i let them do what ever i just get onmy toes and stay just out of reach and leave my face open but hands held high so the elbow doesn't have much room to go to cover center since i close the hook line and stay to far out for a good body shot , people naturally head hunt and instead of doing a rear hand parry pop the tip of the elbow in

if you can parry a shot you can kill the shot
power shots are easier to read then jabs so there easier to kill

same with kicking leave a leg out and bait them when they take the bait kill the leg

now is this going to happen all the time no but when it works it's a good thing

now this is not a wing chun thing ,i was taught it as a porcupine defense i think it was called
but it just makes more sense to me then trying to sit there and pound on each other
i am a coward and have no desire to prove how tough i am

but in reality i have to have the power to finish him off once i sting him so that's when its time for the heavy guns , but not until i secure the target

they guy i head butted did have to seek alittle medical attention but that was because he was trying to get crazy on a drill after i asked him to calm down and he had allready hit me heavy a few times so i said ef it

we just have different mind sets no worries

[Ultimatewingchun]

Ernie: Not using the heavy guns until you secure the target is always the smartest thing to do.

KF: So what about Cro-Cop and Sapp's fight?

[Knifefighter]

Originally posted by Ultimatewingchun
So what about Cro-Cop and Sapp's fight?

Sapp = Power + Strength + Size.
Cro-Cop = Power + Technique + Timing + Distance + Experience.
Cro-Cop > Sapp

Take away Cro-Cop's power (much of which comes from his correct biomechanical technique) and he loses his advantage over Sapp.

[Nick Forrer]

A few random thoughts

IMV A lot of thought was put into wing chun by our ancestors. It seems to me that certain trade offs were made between, on the one hand, power and, on the other, positioning. Wing chuns body positioning and structure (i.e. upright, square on with elbows in and forward at close range to the opponent) is such as to allow for quick recovery when an attack misses or is deflected. Thus the the time it takes to establish a new line of attack when the old one is lost is kept to a minimum. In fact i'd go so far to say that wing chun, by virtue of its very design, recovers faster from a thwarted attack than any other striking art. This is what gives wing chun when done properly its relentless, always one step ahead, strategic quality. They may stop the first one but in doing so they will expose themselves elsewhere (like sending all your men to one end of the castle wall to fend off attackers while another party sneak around the other side).

Of course more power can be generated in a punch by really pulling the fist back, throwing all your weight behind it and charging forward ( a la the haymaker beloved of bar room brawlers and street thugs the world over) but this is easy to detect and thus avoid and leaves the executor in a vulnerable position if it misses.

The question then becomes how to maximise ones power within the biomechanical parameters that the system places on you (or rather that you have set for yourself since you have elected to do it). This is the origin of 'inch' force and the question of how best to cultivate it. I will try and post how I think this is achieved when i have more time.

[Marky]

"Of course more power can be generated in a punch by really pulling the fist back..."

Untrue. The velocities of the two objects (the one hitting and the one being hit) are primary factors. The reason people pull back their fists is because they don't know how to generate the ACCELERATION that will let them hit as hard over a shorter DISTANCE. In other words, if you can attack with greater acceleration over a shorter distance, the resulting velocity will be the same and so will the amount of damage inflicted. But for most people, it's easier just to accelerate more slowly over a larger distance. I only point this out because a "haymaker" is an attack that is utilized due to the FLAWS of the attacker, not the BENEFITS of the attack!

[Nick Forrer]

Perhaps i should have endeavoured to make myself clearer.

In a 100m race a sprinter takes time and thus distance (relatively speaking) to reach their maximum speed. - same as with a car.
Similarly the further an object has to fall the more momentum it will generate and thus impact it will have when it finally hits the ground.

Also if you think a wing chun punch is more powerful than a haymaker go to one of those fairground punching machines and hit it, first from one inch distance without pulling your fist back and then with a five meter run up flinging all your bodyweight behind it. See which one gives you the higher score.

[anerlich]

"Of course more power can be generated in a punch by really pulling the fist back..."

One way or another, to generate power you need to take the "slack" out of the structure so the muscualture and tendons can exert maximum leverage, and generate maximum accelleration, on the striking appendage. The multiplicity of joints in the body means there are many ways to accomplish this ... one of them being pulling the fist back and pre-stretching the arm and chest muscles. The hook in boxing does this by moving the body ahead of the fist - the fist doesn't draw back, ratherthe body moves and pulls the shoulder, arm and fist after it, like a stone from a sling.

A practitioner CAN generate enough power to do damage without pulling the fist back ... but that doesn't mean they wouldn't be able to generate MORE power by pulling it back. The reasons for not pulling the fist back are to do with getting the punch to the target faster, avoiding telegraphing and keeping a good defensive structure, NOT power generation.

I only point this out because a "haymaker" is an attack that is utilized due to the FLAWS of the attacker, not the BENEFITS of the attack!

There is a world of difference between an untrained person's haymaker and attacks such as a boxing hook or Choy Li Fut flailing punch. If you can't see the difference, I suggest upping your medical insurance.

[Marky]

"There is a world of difference between an untrained person's haymaker and attacks such as a boxing hook or Choy Li Fut flailing punch. If you can't see the difference, I suggest upping your medical insurance."

Agreed.