Wooden Dummy Form

[German Bai Lung]

Mantis108 said:

As far as I am aware, LKW has shown that he works with the wooden dummy in both of his books. There may not be a form per se. But working on the wooden dummy he does or least he gave the impression that he does. In fact in his book "Secrets of Seven-Star Mantis Style", he showed a technique "method of the power-forcing fist and propping kick" (p. 146 - 148) which traditionally can be done on a tree trunk. I have not heard of his student(s) make up wooden dummy forms or any form for that matter.

MantisCool said:

As I have said, LKW doesnt has a form to teach. It is just a creation of a few types of combination to work on a wooden dummy. What I meant on the student is that, he told me he (the student) created a few strokes (not form) to work on the wooden dummy and anybody could do that with some imagination and LKW didnt teach any. Maybe just a few steps or tips to keep the students going.

Well, regarding to Sifu Lee Kam Wing, MantisCool is absolutely right.
I also prefer a free, more instinctiv work on the wooden dummy. Let the conclusion of your experience guide you on the wooden dummy. Imagine that is an oponent!

But what think others? Is a form on the wooden dummy of more benefit? Why? Or why not?

BTW, on 28.03. I will work with some students on the wooden dummy, maybe GermanMantis then wants to share his experiences....

[Frogman]

I enjoy working on the wooden dummy mostly for conditioning purposes which, I speculate was the innovation of it’s creation. Though I have not been taught any form applications with respect to the dummy, I do different blocks and strikes that can not be simulated with a heavy bag. There is no doubt that knowledge of a form is beneficial in any practice but a lack of should not discourage one from trying. I am a advocate of free movement and feel if you portray yourself as an artist you need to express yourself as such. Not in the sense of making moves up like a break dancer, more using the techniques learned and experimenting. I know this is not the opinion of everyone here but just the same we all have one. If I understand your point GBL “Let the conclusion of your experience guide you on the wooden dummy. Imagine that is an opponent!”
I couldn’t agree more.


RibHit
fm

[mantis108]

First and foremost thank for the clarifications, MantisCool. Also thank you German Bailung for the clarification and the input.

I am definitely interested in others opinion on subject as well.

I will come back to this thread later.

Warm regards

Mantis108

[mantis108]

Here are some thoughts that straightly are my own and do not represent any other opinion but mine.

Praying Mantis training is IMHO one of the most peculiar practice in TCMA. Almost every aspect of the art is an art onto itself.

Take Kao Da (a.k.a. striking 3 stars) for example, it is one of the most versatile and sophisticated training methodology in TCMA. It can be used to just train an attribute building tool such as withstanding impact throught out the body. It can also be use to refine close quater combat techniques such as takedowns. You can actually use the Kao Da techniques to fight. Most TCMA style today only use it for forearm conditioning. But not the case with Mantis. I would venture to say as far as I am aware, Kao Da in Mantis as methodology is one of the most comprehensive in traditinal Kung Fu. It is an art onto itself.

So whether it is an attribute builiding tool, a skill set building tool, or both depends on the teacher's experience, perpective and insight.

The same goes to Tanglang's Shou Fa (or San Shou whatever label that you prefer) and Quan (forms).

Wooden dummy practice is widely known to be associated with the legendary southern Shaolin and subsequently it's various schools. Most notable is of course the Wing Chun clan(s).

In my article concerning CCK TCPM wooden dummy training, I discussed the training from the point of view that it is an art more so than a form. One could say that it is an art encapsulated in a form that is distinctive with NPM flavor especially that of TJPM style. I take into consideration of the background, dynamics of TJPM and the wooden dummy training, anatomy of the wooden dummy, attribute cross training, fundamentals, power generation, and beyond the training. This all goes to show that why it is in my mind wooden dummy training from CCK TCPM perspective is an art onto itself. BTW, you can find a shorter version of the article in the Mantis Quarterly.

Surely there is nothing wrong with it using the wooden dummy as only an attribute building tool just as some school would use Taiji push hands, Wing Chun Chi Sao, etc... Yet it is personal growth.

GM Chiu saw the potential of a common good with the wooden dummy training. He realized his vision of a special art form which he encapsulated it in a form. So now we as mantis practitioners all can enjoy his intellectual property, a gift if you will, even when he had passed into the infinite for many years. That I believe is the reason why we all appreciate the masters and the arts that they past down. A form is more than just a training tool, it can be but there are so much more to it. A form is a physical selfless sharing of intellectual prosperity and it is unique to TCMA.

Mantis108

PS I don't mean that not using form as teaching is being selfish. But it is unique to use form to teach in TCMA.

[GermanMantis]

Hi there,

as German Bai Lung mentioned above, i attended his seminar on wooden dummy pratice. I was very surprise of the different opportuneties given by the dummy and that it's not simply use for body hardening. You can train you footwork and infight abilyties and precise kicks (oouch that hurts ).
Thx for the superb seminar German Bai Lung!
Greetings from Germany
Chris

[mantis108]

I was looking for that link too. I am also glad that you enjoyed my post.

Warm regards,

Mantis108