Example of a comprehensive weight lifting program

[fa_jing]

http://groups.msn.com/irongarm/train...lete=0&CDir=-2

[fa_jing]

This guy is 6' 2" and weighs under 200, I think

[Ford Prefect]

Not bad at all. Seems like a good blend of powerlifting work and kb's. I like how he blends low intensity stuff with high intensity and also seems to do some things to accomodate resistance. It seems to be Westside inspired, but I'd be a little leary of messing with the percentages used during speed days like he does. I never thought to use chains with pull-ups, but I'll definately give it a try. Something so simple. I can't believe that it completely escaped me.

He just a powerlifter or does he do endurance work too? I didn't see any form of cardio or bwe in there.

[fa_jing]

He just lifts AFAIK. I don't think he competes in powerlifting. You may note all the overhead work and the lack of squats.

[IronFist]

Nonsense. The only "comprehensive" weight lifting program you need is bench and curls. Everyone knows those are the only two muscles that matter. You know they're important because you see them when you look in the mirror.

And if you're not going to wear a shirt, you need to do lots and lots of ab exercises, too. You see them in the mirror, too.

To quote Strongbad, "You don't have abs on your back!"

[Ford Prefect]

I didn't see much overhead work. Nothing out of the ordinary for a guy training the powerlifts. It looks based around the dead and bench. Face pulls, band work, shoulder press etc are all common accessory exercises using a westside method of training.

[fa_jing]

oh, I've seen him post alot of workouts on Dragondoor based on long cycle clean and press with 2 70 pound KBs. 12 sets of 5, I believe.

http://forum.dragondoor.com/?searchUser=5030

Check out the posts that say "Kettlebell training" There are a lot of good ideas in there that a strong lifter can use.

[Ford Prefect]

Cool. Thanks. I have a question about c&J cycles in competition. I did a 10:00 clean and push press (purposefully wanted to hit the shoulders more) cycle this morning with 24kg bells. Are you allowed to rest at all during that 10:00 or do they have to be continous. I ripped off 31, but I'd take breaks holding the kb's in farmers walk position. I could have done more if I could have put them down. Once again, my grip was fried for pull-ups. I had a tough time doing 5 sets of 10.

[fa_jing]

Great work Ford!! I assume you mean Long-Cycle, 1 clean for each jerk - Yes, you can rest with the bells in the up or down position (farmer's hold), as long as you don't let them touch your thighs. At the highest level, people don't rest in the down position, they just rest in the rack because they have good rack rest and can go the 10:00 distance.

I'm not sure that 31 C + pushpress will work your shoulders more than 35 C + jerks that you might have gotten...

Even more importantly, is how you are catching the bells on your chest - the idea is to let them fall and not negative-press the bell. That will really eat into your reps. But you have to practice the catch. Experienced sport lifters go up on their calves to catch the bells as it reduces the distance the bells have to free-fall. But I have never had success with this. I just catch and didp. I do use my calves on the way up, though.

Another thing to know is that in the competition Long cycle C & J you have to pause in the rack before you do the jerk. You can't do the jerk using the same dip that you used to catch the clean. However, you do not have to pause on the way down.

The best anyone's done in the States so far with the 24's is two guys who have done 55 reps LC (Long -cycle) in 10:00 minutes. And they are both Heavyweights.

The best numbers put up so far for LC with the 32's is 17 reps by Bud Jeffries (he of the 1000lb squat). Somebody else has put up 16

The real competition, though, is in the traditional Short cycle and Snatch. The best kettlebell lifter in the US is Alex Makarov who has put up 61 jerks and 61 L/R snatch at 24kg and 26 jerks and 35 snatches with the 32kgs. He only weighs 181 or something. He used to be a Master of Sport in Oly lifting many years ago and C & J'd 180kgs in competition at 198lbs. BW. Obviously he was alot bigger back then.

A lifter from here put up 36/33 snatches in competition with the 32 KG, but did not compete in the jerk. Apparently he gets routines from Charles Staley.

[Ford Prefect]

Thanks for the info. I'm not really looking into comp or strict comp form since I'm working out to get tired and not to get reps. I just wanted something to gauge my progress against. BTW, when I was holding the bells in farmer's walk stance, they were definately touching my legs. My back was losing juice, so I couldn't hold them in the rack position and stay stable.

I can do 4 c&j's with the 72's, but only 3 snatches. I have more than enough strength to put it up, but I'm having problems controlling it on the way back down still. That freaking thing is heavy, and I get worn out by trying to control the decent so I don't break anything.

[fa_jing]

Ford - believe it or not, you just drop them on your chest as you pull your elbows in and rotate your arms to the neutral grip. The impact should be made by your upper arms against your chest. I like to keep my elbows close to each other in the rack. The impact is absorbed with a quick dip made once the bells touch down. You should feel this in the abs and use them to absorb the shock, too. Here's how: http://www.girevoysport.ru/jerk.gif
Study it. You won't see more perfect form. I can't do all the details of what this lifter is doing, but I have most of it, it works for me.

Holding the bells in the rack, should tire out your shoulder girdle before it tires out your back. You need to stretch the hip flexors forward to keep your hips under the weight.

Train the competition style. Believe me, there are things about it that you'll like. If your interested ask on www.kettlebellsport.com forum.

[fa_jing]

Ford - are you saying that you can do a double snatch with the 32kgs and just 3 one-armed snatches? Cause that doesn't equate. Look, you have a strong grip, we know that. I can only do about 12 BW pullups and that's fresh. You don't control the descent, you just pull up at the bottom so that it doesn't go through the floor as you swing it back through your legs. Just don't aggressively flip the KB back over your arm, let gravity do it. It doesn't matter if the downward trajectory is fairly straight close to your body or more like a half circle. That pull up from the bottom requires a strong grip and you tense your abs and push your legs against the floor at the bottom. Again, on the way up, you do the pull again. The pull for the way up is the same difficulty and intensity and the pull on the way down, that's just physics.

[blooming lotus]

how many of folks here have read matt fureys "combat conditioning" book??

[Ford Prefect]

Thanks for th link. I never leaned back like that in rack position. Old BB habits die hard I guess because leaning back = injury there. Now bare with me about these snatches...

I can do a double snatch with 32kg, but it is mightily sloppy. So much so, that I'll only do them now and again as a test because I'm a firm believer in avoiding sloppy exercise to avoid injury.

For the 1-arm snatch, I can only do 3 straight if I'm doing it from the hang. If I put the bell down, stand up straight, and then start over, I can do around 5-7. Honestly I think the discrepency here is in lower back strength. All the lifting I had done before for my lower back like good mornings, hypers, deadlifts were grinding type lifts. I just don't think my back has gotten used to stopping a bell that heavy as it falls towards earth. After all energy = mass, so the faster it's moving the "heavier" it is.

I haven't really been playing much with 32kg bells the past couple weeks though. I've decided to build a solid foundation with the 24's first. I seem to be adjusting really quickly, so I figure in about a month, I'll start tackling the 32's. See if I can give some of those numbers a run.

BL,

Yes, I and plenty other here have read Furey's book.

[fa_jing]

F - it is better to work with the 24's first, that's for sure. Once you have better technique (about 2 months) you'll have no problem transitioning to the 32s.

Are you doing snatches from hang? That's ok, but you should start first with swing-style snatches. Then you won't have to be pulling the bell to a dead stop. Don't assume that just because a hang snatch is more difficult, it is necessarily better. I do like dead snatches from the floor with the 32, but for singles only and in addition to more hi-rep swing-snatch work.

Swings will help you learn to use the lower back correctly, but I'll give you the key right now - tense your abs hard at the bottom of the swing.

BL - go away