Wah Lum, Pong Lai, Politics, HuaLinLaoShr

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings...

Sheer genius!!!!

Be well...

[brassmonkey]

I don't know why anyone would stay or continue with Wah Lum after the daughter's interview a few years back I read. She said to the affect she was getting all these high level forms from her dad that noone else outside her family would get because it was tradition. Yet her dad learned them from someone that wasnt in his family, so I didnt quite get her argument.

Why study a ma you'll never get the best material of since your a non family member?

[mantiskilla]

i did not read that article, but it makes sense to me that a certain amount of information would be kept in the "family". however, that being said, i really dont think that anybody is going to miss much.
________
Theea

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

Maybe i don't have the cultural background to understand this mentallity, but.. i would think that it's the survival of the Art that's important.. so much of historical importance has passed into obscurity because of this whole secret/family thing.. The Temple's Kung Fu is so obviously discriminated in favor of Asians that it makes little sense for a caucasian to invest so much to be denied a fair shake.. Now, that being said, MC was more than generous with me, personally, in sharing his internal knowledge..

I must be fair in this particular situation.. Master Chan was very good to me, patient with my antics ( i am more of a goof-ball than you might suspect), patient with my stressing-out over the lessons, and always able to find that extra little bit i didn't even know i had.. it was not until Simo Suzy decided she wanted to run the Taiji program that things began to deteriorate..

As for Mimi, there is some of the highest potential i have ever seen.. if she can blend wisdom, skill and compassion.. and overcome Simo's influence, Wah Lum could someday have another real GrandMaster.. but, only time will tell..

The Temple was home to me for more than a decade.. to be publically dismissed for reasons that had no basis in reality was more painful than i can explain..to have my personal connection to MC destroyed and my friends alienated by threats of "negative consequences".. should have been satisfaction enough for the parties that perceived an "injustice" (still, i believe it was due to my refusal to switch allegiances from MC to Simo).. but, to intervene in matters of someone else's, in their business affairs.. to seek satisfaction in a personal/school issue is dishonorable.. and, i for one, believe CMA has an obligation to to uphold high community and social standards.. to produce Martial Ethics as well as Martial Artists.. otherwise, we simply add to the pool of violence by raising the standard of violent skills..

Cripe, i can't seem to stay on topic.. sorry .. Be well...

[tanglang69]

This is my first post. Don't have much time right now for a lengthy one. I am glad to see that our disgruntled Wah lum community is not afraid to speak there mind. I started Wah lum back in 1985 under Pablo J. Zamora here in McAllen, Texas. We parted ways with the temple in the early 90's for several reasons. Master Chan was always a cheerful man when he would come to visit us. Since he was far from the stress of home. I work with the Department of Homeland Security and teach martial arts classes in the evenings. I have to go now, but I'll post more stuff later. Like I said, I'm glad to be onboard.

Sincerely,

tanglang69

P.S.

I checked out the Pong Lai website. This looks very interesting. Will make contact with them later.

[Hua Lin Laoshi]

What is the value of an ounce of gold buried in your backyard?








The answer is 0. It only has value when you spend it.

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

Geeeze Dave.. that was good!! Tao Te Dave.. i like it..

Be well..

[flem]

tcbob,

since YOU went off the subject, i'd like to ask what besides marriage gives mrs. chan the right to oversee the tai chi program?

it's all really amusing. and believe me, as time passes, you'll also be able to laugh. i have been where you are now, and i'm telling you, it gets funny...

[Joe Mantis]

Flem,

a dysfunctional family is not something to laugh about.

[spiralstair]

Yeah, It's great having former students make comments about your wife and kids on a worldwide forum...

it must be fun to give your whole life to promoting CMA in America like Master Chan, be one of the 1st to welcome the 'white man' into the indoor world...
then after 30 plus years teaching Americans you get the true reward of the New American Culture..
stabbed in the back by former students with comments about your family...

there is a cautionary tale in here somewhere for Pong Lai and all the other worthy CMAs that are newly arrived on these shores..ah but it'll be different...

but one always expects it to be different for themselves, till the poison leaves its mark..

[18elders]

respect is a 2 way street, that is the problem with wah lum, they want it to them but don't give it back.
For tournament 2000 MC asked my wife to help with translations for the chinese teams coming over. She agreed and when we got to the tournament the person in charge of that said they had it covered and didn't need her help. I informed Tu, Mimi and George if they needed anyone to help she was available. They said they didn't need the help. The next day MC sees my wife and just goes off on her why isn't she helping. At the time my wife was 5 months pregnant, she tried to explain to him they said they didn't need any help and he just flung his hands up and walked away. He didn't even listen to her. We took off work to go there, rented a hotel room, didn't get paid to judge and that is the respect we get. **** that. I don't give a **** who you are, you aren't going to yell at my wife, especially when she is pregnant.
That is the type of character they are. He is one of the first to teach white people, that is what they all say, i thought Bruce Lee was? Like he is doing us a favor, if he didn't he wouldn't have an income, we did him a favor.

Another example is Yu shan bought a lion off of MC, He told him he had a used lion in storage he would sell for $900, When yu shan came down from Tennessee to get it, MC told him $1200 because it looked better than he thought. What good is his word? He should have said, you got a deal because it is in better shape than i thought, but since i quoted you $900 that is what i will give it to you for. NO RESPECT

And yet another, MC sold SC a van, told him everything worked on it, it was the winter time and SC drove back up north, he said it was a piece of junk, the heat didn't work, there was a hole in the floor board on the drivers side and he froze his butt off, he said his body was so cold he lost his splits for a year because of it.

And even yet another, when HLL had a event in the plaza he had his school in he was putting on a demo, the temple wouldn't even support him and send any students. It's not like it is far to go, maybe a half an hour but they wouldn't support him. Then why support the temple? Their street only goes one way.

I think this public forum is great, so people can see what wl character is really like.

[Mika]

Actually, looking at this issue from the outside and not having a clue about the facts (sometimes objectivity can help), I would say your message was the first one without any substance. Claims have been made, and if you disagree, you should back up your counter claims with something solid to further this conversation. As funnee and whatnot this board can get sometimes, these people are thinking guys who often times support their statements one way or another. To contribute to this thread, you should do the same.

Of course, it's a free world and all, so anything goes, but if you wish to dissect the stories with which you cannot fully agree, use a machete instead of just mental chi to get the job done.

In any case, IMHO it would be in everyone's best interest to hear from the other side, too. By now, they must have heard about this thread. How much they care about a thread somewhere on the Net is of course another issue. But to clean the air for the parties involved, this discussion almost demands a public reply from the other party. The other party IS a major player in the field of martial arts, by any standards.

I personally hope this matter can be concluded to everyone's satisfaction and misunderstandings (et cetera) will be realized and solved.

Just my 2 cents...

//mika

[spiralstair]

18 elders wrote:"**** that. I don't give a **** who you are"

then he wrote: "I think this public forum is great, so people can see what character is really like."

Yeah, I totally agree.
See above two statements for example.

[18elders]

that's right, i am a person that sticks up for myself and isn't going to let anyone walk all over me, and one who respecsts his wife and isn't going to let anyone walk all over her either.
Would you yell at MC's wife? What gives him the right to yell at mine????????????
Like i said before, i don't give a **** who you are, what about you spiralstair, don't have the balls to stick up for your wife?(if you have one?)
I am not led on blind faith, i can think for myself and decide on things myself.
I am also truthful, i will answer anyones questions and give them examples like i just did.
Our school is always open for anyone to come in and train or talk with us. Unlike yours who tries to prohibit us from going to tournaments. Like i said , see the true character, we have nothing to hide.

[Taz]

I too would like this matter to come to end;however I do not see this in the near future. I would like an upper member of wah lum to respond to the posts on the forum. I would like to see them respond openly and honestly. It is a fact that Pong Lai was asked not to compete in a tournament in FL by the promoter and if our shrfu judged then WL would not attend. Funny thing, I thought MC has nothing to fear then why the concern for PL participation. This point is reinforced that PL and shrfu John was not asked to participate in the FL CMA organization. This organization should be open to all CMA styles and should welcome different ideas and diversity. It appears that it is for a select group of martial arts organizations. Shame, Shame!!!!
I know when I left WL, my friends at WL were told not to speak to me. When we demonstated at a local event, classmates I knew for years gave me the cold shoulder. This is the strong arm tactics of WL leadership. It is sad, very sad. Nothing to be proud of!! Nor does it show the strength of character of the organization and its leadership. And maybe this forum should be a place where this is discussed. Only then do people become more aware and change can occur.
If anything I wrote is untrue then please challenge my post. Lets see if there was a miscommunication and PL was asked to be included in the FL CMA organization. Or maybe I was too over sensitive and my WL sifu didn't ignore me or rude on any chance meetings.
Lastly, all programs have students come and go. Sometimes they begin and it wasn't what they thought it was, sometimes the grass looks greener some where else and they come back, financial problems, or just problems, we welcome them. The friendship doesn't change and they always welcome to have tea or train. That's community, a martial arts community.
Robin