Bart Jarm Do

[John D]

Hmmmmm....I will share in-spite of the inflamation it will no doubt cause.....

Hopefully, sharing this will not brown off lots of folks. I will make a honest attempt to share what I have collected over the past three decades.....you should draw your on conclusions. Feel free to added to.... or clarify my personal collection.

Again the following is only my own perceptions about the WC Do....


Yip Bo Ching (deceased) Never flipped his blades......his hand written notes collected from his room when his family cleaned out his room after his death also noted that Yip Man's Do curriculum had 12 sections. Lots of other goodies were cleaned out of Yip Bo Ching's room....including copies of the three Leung Jon medicine books.

Ip Cing (and later Ip Chun) flip their broadswords. While I visited his home in 1997,Ip Ching told me that he taught his older brother, Ip Chun, the Do the same sections. Their sets are identical.

Tsui Sheung Ting- I do not think flips his Do. He told me at our luncheon in Dec. 2000. that Yip Man showed only individual Do techniques and as far as he could remember did not show a Do system of many sections.

Wong Tsok (deceased) - Flipped his blades but said it was strictly a play of the hand by many Do practitioners but not really a good practice in combat..... Wong Tsok story is similar to Tsui Shun Ting's statement about indivdual techniques. He was upset that Yip Man taught many "prescrption sets" to feed eager people a remedy for their hungry minds (many hounded Yip Man for secrets)...it was also profitable. Many got garbage but the many different prescriptions did remedy the hunger!

Ho Kam Ming - I did not see him move personally but understand that he does not flip the blades.

Lok Yiu - ???? No information

Wong Long Ching - did not learn any complete blade sequence.

Leung Ting - I do not know much of his Do knowledge. I do not know if he flips his blades. However, after seeing him on video using the gaun do inside his arms (a BIG no no) I was let down...

Cheung Chock Hing - Cheung writes that he constructed his own Do set because he though the old ways were lacking..... so can't comment on something new. I believe he wrote this in response to questions in one of the magazines(?) back in the 1980's.

Wong Shun Leung (deceased) - "NEVER FLIP YOUR DO....NO SUCH MOVEMENT IN THE WC DO INVENTORY...." "....of the 12 sections that I an my Sihing Yip learned from Ip Man, no section has a flipped Do...No such move..." This is the scolding I got from Wong Shun Leung himself in 1980 at the old Kowloon school. Master Wong Tsok happened to be their and quizzed Wong Shun Leung about not flipping the Do....Wong Shun Leung had many words, many of which should not be openly talked about (too much embarrassment and heart ach).

Wang Kiu - I have no information if he flips or does not flip his Do.

Leung Shung (decease) - I do not have much informations except a seeing few still pictures... apparently he knew at least through section five. However much he knew.... he not seen not holding the DO in flipped position.

Lo Man Kam - Follows the Yip brothers and flips his blades.


Please fill in other names that you know of...!
********************************************
There are a number of WC elders who learned from Yip Man. Some say they learned piecemeal while other learn next to nothing of the Do. Several claim they know the "real thing"... but who can be sure.

I can make only two correlations:

1) Both deceased masters Yip Bo Ching and Wong Shun Leung had the same names for their twelve sections. Ip Ching, Ip Chun, and Lo Man Kam are identical in their sections. I can find no other correlation to this date but hopefully most will recognize what is useful and what is worthless in whatever system they learn. Leung Ting has a good idea in recognizing (adopting?) a Filippino system as a useful sword method....why not?

Regards,
John

[mun hung]

I asked my instructor, SiFu Allan Lee who learned the knives from Yip Man about this. He does not flip them backwards either in the bat jam do set.

[kj]

John D. wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Leung Shung (decease) - I do not have much informations except a seeing few still pictures... apparently he knew at least through section five. However much he knew.... he not seen not holding the DO in flipped position.
[/quote]

John, you are correct - there is no flipping in the Leung Sheung knife set.

Nice to see aboard.
- kj

[sifuironfist]

I have read many post by the Legendary John D. on this forum and others. He seems to be a collector of stories, tales, and legends. He always spins an interesting tale. But most of them he tells as if he were at the scene as an eye whitness. I respect his love of the art, but, sometimes he speaks as if he is the one true authority. In Wing Chun, there are many who have made false claims, and point to sources that can not be questioned, in order to validate their story. This is and has been a problem since the death of Yip Man. As to weather you flip the knives or not, or 7 sections, 8 sections, or 12 sections, who knows for sure. Oh yea, The legendary John D., I forgot.

Americans are so smart, they can put a man on the moon, but they still study Karate!!!

[Sihing73]

Hello All,

SifuIronFist you seem to have a problem with "John D" and I am curious as to why his posts seem to upset you so much. If you know of inaccuracies in anything he has stated or can add to the subject then you are welcome to do so. Whether you agree with what he has stated or not is not the issue. There seems to be some underlying personal thing going on, at least to me. It is too bad that neither of you lists an email addres making this, and other forums the only means of communication.

My only suggestion is that if you can not add anything then it may be best to leave it alone.

:) Sometimes the loudest roar comes from the weakest mouse. :p

Peace,

Dave

[whippinghand]

Watchman,
When you wrote that "Ip Ching is coming out here in May", where is "here"? What city? What country?

[Watchman]

Ip Ching was scheduled to travel to St. George, Utah, USA late May/early June of this year. Regrettably, my SiGung had been having some difficulty with his health that kept him home in Hong Kong, so the seminar was called off.

He has been out to our St. George school twice in the past two years and we were really looking forward to his personal instruction again.

Hopefully, I can pinch enough pennies to travel out to Hong Kong with my sifu in the near future to see him.

[John D]

KJ,

Thanks for adding to the list. Can you give more details on Yip man's eldest Hong Kong student. I am interested in knowing how many sections/groups/techniques are found in the Leung Shun Do system. Write what you can....but feel free to say nothing you feel uncomfortable with.

The last time I bumped into K. Chung sifu was in Fatshan in Nov. 1999. I didn't have much time to sit and talk stories about his teacher.

Cheers,
John DiVirgilio in Hawaii

[Sharky]

It looks cooler

My anus is superior™

[El_CLap]

Watchman, weren't you going to get me some pics of your wooden Bart Cham dao?

[Watchman]

Sorry man! I completely forgot. I'll score a friend's digital camera this week and get a pic posted for you.

[wingchun.com]

Check this out:

http://home.hkicable.com/n_n/image/movie/05.jpg

It is a site for Ip Ching's students.

So what do you think?

[kj]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Can you give more details on Yip man's eldest Hong Kong student. I am interested in knowing how many sections/groups/techniques are found in the Leung Shun Do system.[/quote]

Hi John. I have only seen Leung Sheung's knife set a few times (performed by his students), and apologize that it was not frequent enough for me to reliably recount the sections. I see that David Williams is on the forum now, so I will defer to him for detail on the choreography. The set is short and clean compared to most more modern variations I've seen. Definitely no flipping. For us it is considered an extension of empty hands training at advanced levels.

[John D]

KJ

There is nothing to apologize for....this forum is for sharing with others.

David W. and I are in contact. I do recall seeing a book/magazine(?) photo of the late Leung Shung in the "Yat Jee Do" position. This technigue is very unique and is not found in most Do inventory of the many Yip Man followers. However, the Yat Jee Do technique was/is practiced by two (maybe three) other old time Yip man followers, Yip Bo Ching and Wong Shun Leung (maybe a few others including Ho Kam Ming).

The Yat Jee Do technique is found in the "back" half of sections 5 and 9.

Again, thanks for sharing......

John

[kj]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>David W. and I are in contact.[/quote]

I'd be interested to know too, if you find out.

Thanks John, and take care.
- Kathy Jo