CMA type roundhouse in Muy Thai?

[Ralphie]

Question for those that do Muy Thai and/or San Shou:
Do you use a cma type round house ever in mt or ss? I do mt a few times a week, and have been adding a lot of different cma elements into sparring. The round house that I use is where you pull the heel back toward your butt, then quickly kick out striking with the ball of your feet (generally to the abdoment, although other targets are valid as well), then quickly retract. I've been catching guys with this often as either they slide or I slide to the outside. Was basically wondering if anyone else uses or sees this in this type of format?

[apoweyn]

I can't answer your question, I'm afraid. But out of curiosity, what effect is it having? I mean it sounds like you're "scoring" with it. But is it having a demonstrable effect?

[Ralphie]

Many times, I can catch the guy in transition. I've also been training this kick as a skill for years, so the effect seems to be like a good teep. On the low end it stops them from gaining the postition they may have been looking for, on the high end it knocks the wind out of them. I also don't plant it in there 100%, for reasons of safety with training partners. However, it seems to make them think a little more in certain situations.

[Water Dragon]

I throw it CMA style. By CMA style, I mean that instead of pivoting on the ball of my foot when throwing the kick, I'll step (toe out) slightly on a 45 degree angle and throw the kick flat footed.

I still throw the kick bent knee, turn the hip over, point the knee down, keep the hands up though, which I learned from the Thai Boxers.

[ShaolinTiger00]

The round house that I use is where you pull the heel back toward your butt,

Never. Never Ever.

[Ralphie]

why do you say that never? It's not unlike a thai kick as you pivot your planted heel over? In fact, it's pretty close if not identical.

[ShaolinTiger00]

Secondly, you do not "pivot" on your support leg. pivoting, bent kicking legs,, all these things detract hugely from your power generation..

You STEP and plant with your support leg, pointing your toes outside, while you bring the leg and hip THRU the target with speed and torque!

a bent leg will only let you "flick" the target. you'll never get the feeling of crushing thru the target from this grossly bent leg. and if you're pivoting while you kick.. less power. sometimes AFTER a hard kick your momenum will make your support leg pivot.

[Water Dragon]

Thai Kick notes:

1. lift up on the ball of the support leg.
2. Pick the hip up and turn it over. This causes you to pivot on the support leg due to the momentum of the kick.
3. Keep the kicking leg bent. Once you make contact, then PUSH through with your kicking leg. If your leg is already extended, you can't do this.
4. Keep your guard high when you throw the R. House. If you swing an arm back when you kick, you can be countered with a cross.

[Ralphie]

Exactly ST...It's not a replacement for the thai kick. It's like a quick jab to destabalize an opponent looking for a certain angle, with the potential to do a little more. I may steal step or just open the angle in a thai kick, and there may be a pivot or not depending on swing. I know the mechanics pretty well. There's a point after you bring your knee up, and turn your hips over so they are back that your heel is back towards your butt (note: not ****ed in a static position, but referring to the outside to inside wind up that gets your hips back so you can push them through on impact), . It swings out quickly, so it's just a transition, but it's similar to this type of roundhouse as well. Anyway, it's more of an opportunistic thing right now, but it works. Advantage is that it's fast and pretty safe. The disadvantage is that it lacks power, although I've knocked the wind out of people with it. I have only used my lead leg with it as well. Hope I explained that better.

[SifuAbel]

Hey, lets see some samples.

[fa_jing]

If it works, use it. The TKD guys use that kick effectively, if they are traditional, with the lead leg. However, I would take advantage of the opportunity to learn the Thai kick as well.

[Ralphie]

So there's no confusion I use the thai kick quite a bit. The question is if anyone else has used this other type of roundhouse as a weapon in their mt or ss sparring? I will see what I can do about getting pictures as an example Abel.

[ShaolinTiger00]

Ralph - ok. thanks for the clarification, I see that you're not using it as a "this or that", but a "this AND that"

Advantage is that it's fast and pretty safe. The disadvantage is that it lacks power,

I'm still going to disagree. I'll say that they are not safe and that they have little power. I see no positive side. Use the front kick/ and jab to probe. it's the safest. and personally I think "probing" is overrated. If you don't know your range, you're not spending enough time sparring.. A front kick should feel like someone's stomping your guts in. A rear leg front kick - twice as hard.

Roundhouse kicks are easily caught m'kay? trust a san shou guy on this. You're whole body is involved in a round house and in a event that allows clinching & throwing it provides the best time to attack someone due to the commitment. So the ones that you do use need to be low, hard and nasty.

when the moon is right you might see an opporitunity to kick someone's head with one.

[SifuAbel]

Planting and twisting without letting the foot move will wrench the knee. The only thing that needs to be adjusted for the "flick" to have power is to aim a few inches ****her(I can't believe they censor the **** in ****her) in than the surface of the target. The target has to be more "in the way" than "at the very end".

And If you don't have good flexablity in the groin and ham, you're not going to throw a good kick regardless of style.

Those that throw the round with the knee ending down or those that overcompensate by lifting the foot ****her than the knee will not have power.

Throwing the round foot out and back like a side kick also will be weak.

Its got to look like a sideways front kick to have any power at all in that mode of kicking. Its got to be a clean slap with the the knee pointing at the target.

You see plenty of examples of this kick being used effectively in many MMA matches.

[ShaolinTiger00]

Planting and twisting without letting the foot move will wrench the knee.

That's exactly why you must turn the foot to the outside before torquing the hips/leg.

The only thing that needs to be adjusted for the "flick" to have power is to aim a few inches ****her(I can't believe they censor the **** in ****her) in than the surface of the target

I don't buy it. I understand what you're saying but you're not generating enough power.. no amount of "aiming" is going to generate more power. save the visualization for mental preparation ala Jim Thorpe.

And If you don't have good flexablity in the groin and ham, you're not going to throw a good kick regardless of style.

While I agree to a certain point, I've seen many kickboxers who weren't very flexible, have wicked round house kicks.

You see plenty of examples of this kick being used effectively in many MMA matches.

Of a "thai" style kick, or the flick kick? as for the first, for the majority it's almost low on the thigh and thrown after a solid combination.