Adrenal responses and lifting cars

[Merryprankster]

iron.

nope. you can change your absolute strength by lifting (or not lifting).

you can't change your genetic potential - in other words, you can't change your "maximum absolute strength." there comes a point where no matter how many steroids you take, protein you ingest etc, you just cant make the machine "mo' better."

my absolute strength as a shotputter was quite different from now, for instance, as i had more muscle mass; i was designed for bigger pushes, pulls and heavier loads- the engine was different then. this makes perfect sense when you remember that the strength of any fiber bundle is proportional to its cross-sectional area.

make sense?

[IronFist]

Originally posted by Merryprankster
iron.

nope. you can change your absolute strength by lifting (or not lifting).

you can't change your genetic potential - in other words, you can't change your "maximum absolute strength." there comes a point where no matter how many steroids you take, protein you ingest etc, you just cant make the machine "mo' better."

my absolute strength as a shotputter was quite different from now, for instance, as i had more muscle mass; i was designed for bigger pushes, pulls and heavier loads- the engine was different then. this makes perfect sense when you remember that the strength of any fiber bundle is proportional to its cross-sectional area.

make sense?

No.

So you're saying that you CAN change your absolute strength? Ford's definition was "Absolute strength: The absolute amount of force your muscles are capable of producing," which made it sound like you can't change it no matter what. That's why a Powerlifter is closer to his absolute strength than a non-lifter.

Maybe I misunderstood you, but your post sounds like you say it's possible to change your absolute strength.

Using the car engine analogy that was given earlier, say a person's absolute strength is 300hp. But he never lifts weights and so his maximal strength is only 50hp. Then for 5 years he becomes a bodybuilder, and gets his maximal strength up to 180hp. Then for 15 years he does powerlifting and gets his maximal strength up to 250hp. Isn't his absolute strength still 300hp, regardless of muscle size, weight, etc?

[Merryprankster]

Yes you can change your absolute strength, by increasing your muscle mass! (and maybe other things)

you're confusing genetic potential with absolute strength, at least as i understand it.

my 199 lbs shotputter body was a 300hp engine. i might have been able to tap into 260 hp of that.

my current 185 lbs body is maybe a 250 hp engine, i might be able to tap into 225 hp of that or something. exact numbers aren't important.

perhaps my genetic potential is only 350 hp.

perhaps if i don't work out at all and waste away, i'm only a 150hp couch potato, with the ability to tap in to 75 hp

regardless, at those points in time, no amount of adrenaline is going to put me over the 300, 250, 350 or 150 hp limits.

just like a car, you can replace or rebuild the engine to improve overall power delivery---but no amount of gas is going to get more than that absolute load, as long as you are dealing with THAT engine. adrenaline doesn't change the engine - it just takes out the restrictor plates so you can run over the redline.

your genetic potential is kinda like the limits of space under the hood, chassis, etc- you just can't pack more engine in there, it won't fit, ever.

to sum up:

genetic potential- what you CAN reach in a perfect world.

absolute strength - 100% muscular effort at any given point in time

maximal strength - some percentage of your 100% muscular effort that you can call upon under "normal" circumstances (ie, at will, not under duress)

strength deficit - the difference between what you can call on normally, and the absolute amount you can generate at any given point in time.

when you are talking absolute, maximal strength, or strength deficit, you're talking snapshot in time. right now, today, at this moment (or the moment of observation). when you talk genetic potential, you're talking "no matter how hard you work, you'll never get past this."

now, this is how i understand these terms from my throwing days. maybe ford knows something i don't.

for the record, i think i'm done with this topic, no offense to anybody. i'm just tapped out for ways to explain it.

[mickey]

Hi Merryprankster,

While I understand what you are saying from the physical perspective, there are times when explanations in physical terms just will not do. Especially when other factors, like chi, can come into play.

I have enjoyed discussing the subject with you. and I really appreciate the fact that it did deteriorate into one of those "okay buddy, 3 o'clock-- we'll see then" scenarios.

Thank you for the time.

Peace,

mickey

[blooming lotus]

Originally posted by Merryprankster
iron.

nope. you can change your absolute strength by lifting (or not lifting).

you can't change your genetic potential -
\

whadda-loada-bull

qi is a totally different concept and over rides maximal strength and or any other "generic - disposition"

I wish I could make you understand because I know you have alot of potential...specially Iron

whaddaya say here???

[IronFist]

How does qi affect musclular strength? I thought all the qi people were all anti-tension.

[mickey]

"anti-tension"?

Ironfist,

Is this why you get out of Dodge City every time I mention something like yoga or meditation?

mickey

[IronFist]

^ Huh?

I just mean that all the taiji people and all the qigong people are all about "oh, you're using too much tension. Tension blocks qi flow."

So I'm just wondering how qi could be responsible for muscle contraction.

[Toby]

Originally posted by blooming lotus
qi is a totally different concept and over rides maximal strength and or any other "generic - disposition"

I've avoided getting into this because I don't know enough about qigong to argue against it. But, if your argument was hypothetically true BL/mickey, then can you provide evidence? Are there any scientific papers written to support it? Why aren't the strongest people in the world qigong practitioners?

I mean, if the argument were true, then why aren't world class athletes all qigong practitioners? Like Olympic lifters this year? If it were true, there would be international fame in the scientific community and/or lots of money to be made in the athletic community.

Also, no offence mickey/BL, but if you want people to listen to your argument, you'll have to learn to create an effective argument in clear English.

Lastly, mickey, can we have more about your needle story? I'd like to know what happened. Did the needle break? How do you know that "qi" had anything to do with the shot not working? Could it have been the case that you just flexed your muscles? I know that makes it difficult to find veins (but not insert needles into the skin) - but how did your "qi" make it harder? Did the needle penetrate the skin at all? Where was the shot? Because if it was in the crook of the elbow, there's only skin then the venal wall. No muscle between the skin and vein.

[blooming lotus]

this computer's pi*sing me off....couldn't read the whole of the last post but I think the recorded proof relating to qigong practitioners etc is greatly philosophical on there part...

there are however recorded accounts of dudes pulling buses with their ***** for God's sake...you cant tell me that's unimpressive stregth wise, nor something that most people can do

Iron..I don't think qi has so much to with muscle contraction as the power behind it.....

dong ma??? d'you understand??? ..........

without that power, non of your moverments would be posible, so I guess there is a certain amount of involuntary use of qi, even in people who don't even know it exists....

I think of qi as the "other oxygen", and this helps???

Ps..just opened the emei video...cheering

[IronFist]

Man, I wonder what would happen if you gave qigong practicioners steroids.

[blooming lotus]

hey dude ..............

It sounds like a funny question or statement?? .but because they are chemical and foreign, they would comprimise a practioners qi and leave weaker....crazy sh*t right

becomming clearer?????

hey, just found a local taiji to teach me everyday...for free ......but that's Zhengzhou for ya .......stay posted and I'll be happy to share what I learn

[Toby]

Originally posted by blooming lotus
there are however recorded accounts of dudes pulling buses with their ***** for God's sake...you cant tell me that's unimpressive stregth wise, nor something that most people can do

What's *****? Dicks? Well, then it's not strength (well, not of their dick anyway). Without knowing (or wanting to ), I would guess that they have strengthened the skin on their dicks and the connective tissue and muscle inside to a certain tensile strength through various repetitive training methods (e.g. hanging heavy objects from it, vigorous massage, application of jow ). That tensile strength would be then greater than the force required to move a bus i.e. their dicks wouldn't snap when they pulled the bus. The pulling of the bus, though, would be from their legs as they walked backwards away from the bus. If, on the other hand, they could stand still and pull the bus along, then I would be extremely impressed .

P.S. it's more a momentum thing. There would be a certain minimum force required to get the bus moving. It may not be so much (but then it may). E.g. I'd rather do this on a bus in neutral than a small hatchback in gear. Get the bus moving and keep applying a surplus of force above that required to overcome inertia and bob's your uncle. I would think the hardest part would be walking backwards. In any case, it would be leg muscles, not dick muscles and in that case pulling a bus is impressive, although lots of people could do it. The dick not snapping is interesting, but not impressive IMO.

[blooming lotus]

not impressive...mmm hmmmm...

lol....so you're happyto demonstrate yourseld then??

you know,I have you onignore, so when I click to read I miss half ofwhat you say...if I don't respond to what you've saidin right context, that'll be why


any way...explain away anything you like...if you're trying to find reasons to disprove somethong, more often than not you'll find them...( or something resembling....if you can't f*ck "em with fact...baffle em with bs) and no amount of chat from me will make a difference...so cheers and just stfu and enjoy your practice


or at minmium dude...find peace in it

[mickey]

Hi Toby,

Strangely, your questions pretty much describe what happened. I was in such a state of fear that they had me in restraints. The shot was given in the crook of the arm. It did not penetrate; when the nurse applied more force the needle broke. The doctor seemed to realize what was going on. He stopped the nurse from trying to give a second shot. He covered my eyes with a paper towel and a few minutes later, after I had calmed down, gave me the shot-- I didn't see it coming. Boy, did I scream!

I spoke to my sister about this last month and she shared a similar incident when she was getting a shot in the buttocks as a child. Her buttocks were so tense that the needle bent. I guess it runs in the family.

mickey