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Thread: Chinese culture, religions and MA

  1. #1

    Chinese culture, religions and MA

    Both Daoism and Zen meditation have profound influences in CMA.

    Religions for the most part are subjective and personal.

    Chinese culture has a lot of reasoning and logics into all of the above.

    Some examples:

    In Song dynasty, the wife of general Yang wanted to commit suicide after the husband was killed by some soldiers. The prince of Ging said no. She wanted to be faithful to her husband. Both live or both die. However, her husband just passed away, she did not finish grieving and burial. She actually was not faithful (Bu Chun). She was pregnant. If she did not deliver the baby and raise him, she was not pious. She ended the family of Yang.(Bu Xiao) She killed herself and the baby would die, too. She was not merciful for the baby. (Bu Ren) Most important of all, she did not avenge her husband death yet. She was not just. (Bu Yi)

    She only thought about being faithful. However, Chun Xiao Ren Yi (Confuciaism) told her to think otherwise.


    Both Daoism and Zen are always broadened by culture, science and knowledge into the "logics" of thinking and MA.

    Buddha said do not say. (Fer So Bu Ge So)

    You see things, you feel things, you hear things, you understand or appreciate things. When you try to describe them, your words may not completely represent the "truth". Oftentimes, words may be misleading or misunderstood.

    You observe life and you experience life. When you try to say all the time, you are preoccupied, you may not see things clearly. Sometimes, it is better not to say or try to interprete things too early before you comprehand the events fully.

    The best revelation in life is actually to experience. It is best not to say it.

    On and on.

    Before mixing any religions with CMA. There are all these logics of virtues (why and how) and reasonings including observations, science, physics etc. All these are part of study of CMA.

    So Daoism and Zen may go as deep as you may.

    Just a reminder for how Chinese think about life and MA.
    Last edited by SPJ; 04-18-2004 at 03:45 AM.

  2. #2
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    Re: Chinese culture, religions and MA

    Originally posted by SPJ
    Both Daoism and Zen meditation have profound influences in CMA.

    Religions for the most part are subjective and personal.

    Chinese culture has a lot of reasoning and logics into all of the above.

    Some examples:

    In Song dynasty, the wife of general Yang wanted to commit suicide after the husband was killed by some soldiers. The prince of Ging said no. She wanted to be faithful to her husband. Both live or both die. However, her husband just passed away, she did not finish grieving and burial. She actually was not faithful (Bu Chun). She was pregnant. If she did not deliver the baby and raise him, she was not pious. She ended the family of Yang.(Bu Xiao) She killed herself and the baby would die, too. She was not merciful for the baby. (Bu Ren) Most important of all, she did not avenge her husband death yet. She was not just. (Bu Yi)

    She only thought about being faithful. However, Chun Xiao Ren Yi (Confuciaism) told her to think otherwise.

    a great partofthereason why confucius did not holdwomen in high esteem andwhy buddhism regards love as a"poisonous thorn" speaking sexually as opposed to compassion :suffer with someone on level of evolving humanity......love is a distraction,men/women are reason to be vulnerable and sex comprimises your qi...


    Both Daoism and Zen are always broadened by culture, science and knowledge into the "logics" of thinking and MA.

    Buddha said do not say. (Fer So Bu Ge So)

    buddha gratly spoke of aesetic life and secular habits and lay practice was an "adapted" form .....

    You see things, you feel things, you hear things, you understand or appreciate things. When you try to describe them, your words may not completely represent the "truth". Oftentimes, words may be misleading or misunderstood.

    You observe life and you experience life. When you try to say all the time, you are preoccupied, you may not see things clearly. Sometimes, it is better not to say or try to interprete things too early before you comprehand the events fully.

    The best revelation in life is actually to experience. It is best not to say it.

    welcome to ch'an...words and thoughts are both bound by limits like vocab and human physcology

    On and on.

    Before mixing any religions with CMA.

    ]hmmmm....I'm not entirely convinced you can even have one without the other


    There are all these logics of virtues (why and how) and reasonings including observations, science, physics etc. All these are part of study of CMA.

    So Daoism and Zen may go as deep as you may.


    [COLOR=darkblue]and deeper than you more than likely wont[/COLOR


    Just a reminder for how Chinese think about life and MA.
    or is that a reminder how a western mind interprets how chinese think about life and ma..............

    thx for the opportunity to share anyway

  3. #3
    Agreed.

    Sometimes, it is difficult just to learn CMA without studying life philosophy coupled with it.


    Last edited by SPJ; 04-18-2004 at 04:44 PM.

  4. #4
    Sorry I got sidetracked.

    Yes. The teachings of Daoism and Zen are simple in words and yet deep in meanings. So is Wushu basic training.

    When you attend modern day Daoists and Zen Buddhist seminars, their talk includes all topics in today's life. They called the seminars "the meetings for methods" (Fa Hwei). So they are disseminating methods of study and applications of old teachings in modern day life.

    CMA basic trainings are simple but yet require a lot of time to practice to gain skills. The apps and principles behind the basic moves are also deep and wide.

    I was told that to learn a thousand moves not so well is a waste of time. To learn a single move well is more important.

    I was taught to train well with basics and then and only then grow from there. The basic training is your foundation of Wushu, your roots or Zhuang.

    So do not got bored easily nor disregard your basic training as too simple to bother. (I was like this totally in the beginning, now I know better.)

    I was going to carry a lot of messages in the original post.

    Apology for a distracting story earlier.

  5. #5
    i've been trying to have a zen outlook on all i do. zen is in everything you do. i think i'm preaching to the choir on that one. being totally with the moment is getting easier. i 've been reading "zen and the art of motorcycle maintainance". great book. i'm not trying to learn zen from a book or anything, but i look at things more realistically now. it's easier to make my mind shut up and just function. just work on my gong fu and take everything as it comes.
    "If you practice praying mantis, women will like you."--Shi Zheng-Zhong

  6. #6
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    Originally posted by bung bo
    it's easier to make my mind shut up and just function. just work on my gong fu and take everything as it comes.

    sweet

  7. #7
    If you have opportunity to read more recent books on Daoism and Zen, you would see they are enriched by uptodate events.

    My point is that the philosophy is broadened in context.

    The study of which I think is necessary. But it may be short of being a religion.

    For example,

    The loyalty toward your country (Da Chun).

    "Ask not what your country can do for you. Ask what you can do for your country." by JFK. included in the teachings.

    Alongside with General Yuet Fei's story. He had a tatoo on the back by his mother. It said that complete Chun/loyalty and reciprocate your country. (Gin Chun Bao Guo) General Yuet wanted to stay and serve her mom to be pious. His mom said no. Just go and defend your country. If there is no country, there is no home.

    On and On.

    I would be nice that these stories are discussed a little along with CMA lessons. At least, this was how I was taught.

    I agreed that to enforce a religion is totally wrong. But a little bit moral understanding lessons sometimes may be more important then learning how to fight. At least, it is very much stressed in Old China.

    Granted modern day Wushu deals with only gyms and moves only. Winning the competition as the only goal may not be all right.

    Sometimes learning how to be a good person is more important then everything else.

    There I said my piece.
    Last edited by SPJ; 04-19-2004 at 08:00 AM.

  8. #8
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    Religions for the most part are subjective and personal.
    You think?

    I know it's not the crux of your point, but just for the sake of discussion, I'd say just the opposite.

    Without making any value judgments, I'd say that religion is objective and shared. It's the body of agreed upon rituals, lessons, and presentation that frame a sense of spirituality so that people can experience it as a group. (With mixed results, in my opinion.)

    That's semantics, I suppose. Calling the subjective, personal experience "spirituality" and the objective, shared experience "religion" doesn't really change the equation. Just the designation of the variables. But it's an interesting subject, so I figured I'd give it my own kick in the arse.


    Stuart B.
    When you assume, you make an ass out of... pretty much just you, really.

  9. #9
    Agreed.

    We all have our own receiving of lessons in life. Our interpretation or our understanding (Chan/Zen) is subjective and personal.

    However, if something a lot of people say yes to, it can be objective.

    Your experiences in life and with God is personal.

    However, the fatherly love of God's are experienced by many. All the believers come together, witness and share their own personal experiences with God's love. The theme is absolutely objective.

    When people study CMA, you may bring forth your own religions or beliefs. You do not have to be Chinese or Daoists or Zen Buddhists at all.

    It would help to know a little bit background on life philosophy. Oftentime, that is a more important lesson.

    For example, Tai Ji is to be in balance. Use stillness to overcome the movements. Use a small force to take on a bigger force. Use a small movement to defeat a large movement. To neutralize and counterattack at the same time.

    If you learn all the moves and yet block out all the life philosophy. Do you know Tai Ji Quan fully?

    Actually, the study of philosophy (together with apps, and principles) would take more time. Usually it is done with Za Zen meditations. Sorry I meant for both Daoists and Buddhists.

  10. #10
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    I think a "life philosophy" is different from a religion though. Boxing gyms don't generally have a religious component, for example. (Though a strong Christian influence certainly wouldn't surprise me.) But boxing certainly can provide a life philosophy. Particularly for nonprofessionals (so that any lessons learned aren't constantly tainted by the next big pay day).

    Boxing is often used as a character building exercise for young men and (less often) women. Work hard, treat yourself with respect, listen to those who've come before you, struggle, persevere, etc. Hard work yielding good results. It's a very western mindset. But no less philosophically profound than an eastern mindset really.

    I would consider ideas like adherence to nature, the value of yielding, etc., to be life philosophy type stuff. Ideas that are recognized by Zhuangzi and Thoreau in much the same way. But specific rituals make it religious. Personally, I see more value in the idea than in the ritual.


    Stuart B.
    When you assume, you make an ass out of... pretty much just you, really.

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