Originally posted by Eddie
Very few street fights are between ‘trained’ fighters. In these cases, often if the fight goes to the floor, its all over in any case. As I said before, I doubt that my mates (or the other people around) would allow my opponent to sit on me. Even if I was alone, and there were other around who doesn’t know me, someone would come in and ‘spoil’ your mount.
not necessarily. Granted, there are plenty of multiple attacker fights, but there are also plenty of 1 on 1 fights. I actually see them quite a bit. Not all altercations happen in a crowded bar where people will interfere. about a year ago, I chased away a guy who was mugging a paperboy. his friends were in the getaway car, not helping the guy - they just let him do the mugging. When I started running towards him, his friends still didn't get out the car. the other guy jumped in the car and they took off.
A good striker would be able to do just that, if someone is solid on his feet as fu pow explained, its not as easy to take him down as everyone makes it out to be. Then again, your strategy is exactly the same as mine, as CLF and other TCMA also have throws and take downs. In my personal opinion, throws are important. It usually ends of a fight.
rooted or not, you can be uprooted. the key, IMO, is to remain mobile. I can be mobile and still have a good base. This is where takedown defense comes in.
Not always, the fight I was referring to between Mo Smith and the grappler, the grappler had no chance to get close enough to Mo. First opportunity he had, he took the guy out. But this wasn’t the original topic. No one doubted the effectiveness of learning how to grapple, actually, I remember everyone supported this idea.
you're right, not always. nothing is absolute.
that’s exactly why most fights don’t always end on the floor. Tournaments differ from street fighting. I find it hard to believe you will have enough time to mount your opponent in a street fight. I can go as far as to say I have NEVER seen this happen in any street fight. But I still support BJJ, this threat was never against that.
it doesn't have to be a full mount. It can be a side mount, north-south, scarfhold, etc. If we are fighting and fall to the ground, if I'm on top I can establish some quick position and fire off some punches. That said, I have seen the full mount used in streetfights. In one on one fights, however, never a multi attacker situation.
even if we just slip and fall, and the guy lands on top of me. when people are on the ground, the non trained person's first instinct is genrally to hold on to you, so that you can't move. Iven though he's tecnhically not mounted, I've got this big behemoth trying to keep me from moving, and I have to be able to quickly and efficiently get up.
let's assume he doesn't fall on top. We train for that too. kick to the knee, etc. and standing up defensively is all taught in bjj self defense.
Pardon me for my ignorance. I’m not really getting you on this issue. The question was, does CLF have ground fighting, and some of us (including myself) said no. We said, ground fighting differs from ground boxing, as most kung fu people think that ground boxing is sufficient to prevent you from getting trapped in a fight (when I speak of ground boxing, I refer to stuff like Ditang Chuan, Monkey style etc – when I refer to ground fighting, I refer to BJJ, wrestling etc). When I read your first few posts, I realised you are a MMArtist, but then in this last quote you seem to support traditional kung fu saying that taiji players would apply taiji principles in wrestling?
I do support kung fu. I trained in longfist for four years. before that, I'd done jun fan and kali for about a year, and have also trained traditional japanese karate for three years. I support whatever works. If you can make your kung fu work, I support it. If you can make your TKD work, I support it. People tend to knock TKD, but I've had the he11 knocked outta me from a TKD guy in sparring, so I know it has it merits when trained properly.
take downs and fighting from the ground is two different things. Traditional Chinese Martial Arts have plenty of take downs. CLF has many. I think I speak for the majority of Kung Fu players when I say we do train in avoiding take downs. We DON’T train to fight on the ground (or rather our styles don’t teach this).
you're absolutely right, but look at what I was replying to... He said that the focus of CMA is not to go to the ground in the first place. I don't think I'd say that all CMA train to avoid takedowns. The fighting demin that is the double leg takedown has proven that alot of people, regardless of style don't train them, or at least not as much as they should. The common defense I've seen in TMA is to sidestep, which isn't always enough, even if the sidestep is in conjunction with a strike.
All due respect, why don’t you finish reading the complete post before you reply. That way you would understand what is being said. I agree, kung fu lack ground fighting, but is it all that important as we say it is? I don’t know. The original question was, does CLF have ground fighting. Many of us said NO. Does CLF have take downs? YES it does. Plenty of it. How would a skilled CLF player fare against a skilled BJJ fighter? I don’t know, honestly I don’t care. Kung Fu is much more that just fighting, that’s why most of us do it.
With all due respect, please read all of MY post. I quoted that section and stated that it always irked me. Then I quoted your next line as support to why. I was actually in agreeance with you.
The fight I was referring to, he didn’t grapple. Simple kickboxing won him the match.
the beauty of cross training. Since he did cross train, he's used to the grappler's tactics. Notice that you won't find any more than a small handful people who consistently defended grapplers without cross training. As a result of their cross training, they learned their tactics and were ready to deal with them.
I have noticed that you have moderator privileges right? I’m just wondering why a MMArtist would want to be a moderator on a kung fu forum?
ROFLMAO!!! actually, I didn't want to moderate this forum. Not because I do MMA, but because I'm rather ignorant of southern styles. My experience was northern MA. I had asked to moderate either the streetfighting forum the training forum or the ORA, but gene felt I was more needed here, as at the time there was a lot of chaos here. I think it's been cleaned up pretty nicely though. I also moderate the main forum.
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Originally Posted by David Jamieson
