Awww $hit

[unkokusai]

Originally posted by Meat Shake
"What about to save your family? Friends? Neighbors?"

These are implied, I consider those close a part of me.
Dont be a *******.

And your country, o' clear writer?

[Meat Shake]

I wouldnt be fighting for my country in iraq. My country is fine. Id be fighting for their country and for george bush's pocket book.

[KWUsCRD]

Originally posted by red5angel

The Cherokee people adapted quickly and learnt to survive, that's what it's about, adaptability and survival.

I also have some Cherokee blood.

[unkokusai]

Originally posted by Meat Shake
I wouldnt be fighting for my country in iraq. My country is fine. Id be fighting for their country and for george bush's pocket book.

Let's hope there's no draft to keep the likes of you out!

[Chang Style Novice]

This goes back a ways in the thread, but avoiding the draft because the current war is one you do not support IS FIGHTING FOR WHAT YOU BELIEVE IN!

Some folks seem to have gotten that mixed up with fighting for what the Gov't (or more specifically, the Bush administration) believes in.

[Toby]

Originally posted by red5angel
rub - I didn't want to get into ancient greek or latin, some people have a hard enough time speaking their own language

Originally posted by rubthebuddha
you're tellin me. i moderate the training forum.

Roflmao! Gold, RTB, gold!

[Water Dragon]

******! You *******s gave my thread the Ghey!

[rubthebuddha]

Originally posted by Toby
Roflmao! Gold, RTB, gold!

sorry, wd. if you want to get back on track, go steal you-know-who's olson twins posters. that'll get people fighting for what they believe in again.

[Meat Shake]

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[Kristoffer]

Originally posted by CaptinPickAxe
Kris is an ORA Ryda and posts that way in the truest sense.


For real though, kris. Go to a coffee shop for a bit. I think G-men are on their way to your house for your bush comment.

Let em come, I got a liquid foot bath cream. NObody's gonna mess with that

Originally posted by red5angel



kristoffer, I know english is your second language so here's a pointer - "angel" is an english word for celestial beings created by god, before he created by man (if you believe in that sort of thing.) It does not mean "neck". and "5" is what we call the number after 4 and before 6, not "neck".

Oh my bad then

[KC Elbows]

Considering the number of Iran-Contra graduates this administration has sought to reinstate in new positions, let's summarize a key point in another popular war on ____________, in this case the war on drugs.

The same presidents who were the biggest proponents of the war on drugs were 1) The president who did not realize members of his own admin were connected with cocaine smuggling and a little airstrip in Arkansas, and 2) The next president, who pardoned just about all the principles involved in the operations in 1.

Don't believe me? Look it up. While you're at it, look up the rest of Iran-Contra, where we sell arms to terrorist regimes(knowingly) in order to fund rebels in Nicaragua(and to free hostages), all while our president says "we will not bargain with terrorists".

I'm not saying these actions did not represent legitimate political needs(except th cocaine thing, that was pure hypocricy), but I am saying that accepting presidential politics at face value is hopelessly naive and a failure to participate in our democracy. Notice how everyone's talking about tax free jobs for americans there? Some of those jobs require really no expertise. Why can't Iraqis do them? Because at least in part, our economy is a factor, and oil, and terrorism, and the repercussions of cold war ideology.

I'm pretty sure I'm past draft age, but if not, c'est la vie. However, I'm definitely too old to believe that we are in a position to educate Iraq, because we are as yet unable to openly discuss our part in what happened there, we speak of liberating them, but we never seem to deal with the distrust we sewed there some years back, and present actions seem to raise that spectre more than banish it.

Most of all, if we are to succeed, we must come from a position where the faces preaching liberaton weren't mostly the same faces preaching cold war policy over the welfare of the middle east. And that means no Bushes at the head, definitely no Cheney, etc. These are names with pasts in the middle east that cannot be dismissed with a TV ad. Just because they dared do it doesn't mean they can finish it. Responsibility needs to be passed to people who the Iraqis do not suspect.

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

I was doing pretty good in college in 1969, i needed 13 hours to be a full-time student, so i took 13 hours of classes.. then by some stroke of luck my Sat. lab was cancelled (note: 12 hours and draft eligible).. 2 weeks later i'm inducted into the US Army, sent to a lovely Southeast Asian Paradise, NOT!! none of this was too offensive to me until the US decided that 52,000 of my brothers and sisters would have given their lives for nothing.. we left, unfinished business, no pride, and 52,000 wasted lives.. it has been the US signature of military action since WWII..

The US's tarnished image is from the realization that we no longer stand for liberty and freedom.. we subjugate a third of the third world nations with repressive economic policies and covert politics.. i am humbly proud of the principles on which this nation was founded, i am blantantly ashamed of the way we obliterated this nation's native inhabitants and the continued injustices.. i am American by birth and choice.. BUT, to set the record straight, from the '60s.. it goes like this, when someone says "America, love it or leave it".. i reply, "change it or lose it".. The US's oppressive foreign (and domestic) policies are quickly posturing us into an isolationist niche from which we can be controlled by controlling the foreign resources we depend on.. while we out-source labor and goods to foreign countries so we can support our lavish lifestyle, we are setting the stage for economic blackmail (early '70s oil crisis).. The US assumes it's super-power status from the bully pulpit.. exporting dogma and empty promises in return for cheap labor and economic dominance..

SO, i remain politically active and hold my beliefs that our founding principles are profoundly just.. and not just the for US citizens, those principles are valid for all people.. I believe that we MUST change it or lose it, and i am willing to use the system and it's potential to try to make those changes.. i will not run away, i will fight the system with the system.. BUT, never again will i assist this government in wasting thousands of lives for less than verifiable and fully committed cause.. the self-righteous, cowboy administration in place now has set us on a course for disaster.. they refuse to address the real problems of civilization and seem to think they can simply "kill the problem".. we MUST "join" the world community, not "rule" it...

Be well...

PS: My heart an prayers go out to the troops in harm's way, may each of you return safely... but, suppose they gave a war and nobody showed up?

[SaMantis]

when someone says "America, love it or leave it".. i reply, "change it or lose it"..

absolutely.


Don't forget that the best tool available to change what you perceive to be wrong with America is the ballot. Get out there and vote.

[Shaolinlueb]

i agree with what Shen Zhou said. so therefore i am rather go to canada then fight some war that doesnt affect me, jsut the wallet size of my president and his buddies . I have patriotism i also have a sense of morals too.

[red5angel]

I wouldnt be fighting for my country in iraq. My country is fine. Id be fighting for their country and for george bush's pocket book.

That's a real lame, and ineffective, should I say impotent way of looking at the world, congratulations.


CSN - leaving the country is not fighting for anything, that's running away. fighting the draft is fighting for what you believe. Avoidance doesn't even count as passive aggressiveness in my book.