Red Sand Palm

[kyklos]

Ok so i just read the book "Kung fu: History Philosophy and technique" by David Chow and Richard Spangler. And in it they describe various forms of Hard and Soft Kungs. I've pretty much heard of all of them (Iron Fist , Iron Forearm, Iron Shin, walking softly, Dragon claw, leaping kung, bag kung, etc etc.) except for Red Sand Palm. Supposedly if mastered this Kung will allow the person to kill or severely maim from just "rubbing" the enemy in a certain way. Death can be immediate or it can take as long as two weeks. Being the westerner that i am I must question the reality of this. Are there any masters that practice this or have there ever been documented evidence of it happening in the past? Or is it something that just developed from legend? Oh ya and it supposedly takes around 10 years to master.

Just wonderin if anybody has heard or knows anymore info on this.

Thanks

[dwid]

Are there any masters that practice this or have there ever been documented evidence of it happening in the past?

No. Or rather, if there are, they should be ashamed of themselves.

Or is it something that just developed from legend?

Yes. Maybe somebody did some internal damage with a body shot one time. His enemy dies a few days later and suddenly everybody is talking about his "poison fist." He figures, what the hell, might as well use this to my advantage, supports the rumor, and a myth is born.

Without a well-developed knowledge of medicine, a strike that causes internal injury could well have been perceived as something magical.

[kyklos]

I don't know about their lack of medicinal knowledge. If you take into account hundreds of thousands of years of the development of TCM. Just because they don't have well developed medicine as we see it in western terms doesn't mean its not well developed. Anywho,supposedly the practitioner of "Red Sand Palm" doesn't even strike the person. He can make a movement of "rubbing" with the palm at a distance and it effects the enemy. Supposedly it not only internally effects organs but also the flow of qi and the damage is irreparable. I guess my question is: if these monks are all about pacifism and they learn kung fu as more than just a martial art but a spiritual one, what purpose would this technique serve? I guess they could possibly better manipulate qi?

[bodhitree]

good book on the subject 'Ultimate Iron Palm' by Wing Lam

[dwid]

I don't know about their lack of medicinal knowledge. If you take into account hundreds of thousands of years of the development of TCM. Just because they don't have well developed medicine as we see it in western terms doesn't mean its not well developed.

What I mean is true knowledge of the way the body is structured anatomically and functions physiologically. We now understand (through repeated experimentation and study) how internal organs really work, how the body functions through various cellular reactions, etc... TCM was based on a theoretical paradigm that lacked the tools to study and understand the body on this level. Therefore, they lacked the tools to treat (or even understand) many types of internal injuries. Thus, injuries that might require surgery today would have been fatal at that time and been a slow and painful death.

Anywho,supposedly the practitioner of "Red Sand Palm" doesn't even strike the person. He can make a movement of "rubbing" with the palm at a distance and it effects the enemy. Supposedly it not only internally effects organs but also the flow of qi and the damage is irreparable.

This is absurd. It's just a shaolin equivalent to antiquated western beliefs in witchcraft. Superstitious nonsense.

I guess my question is: if these monks are all about pacifism and they learn kung fu as more than just a martial art but a spiritual one, what purpose would this technique serve? I guess they could possibly better manipulate qi?

The myth of the technique and other deadly ones like it would give bandits cause to question whether it is worth the trouble of robbing a monk, I suppose.

[kyklos]

hrmm.... anybody else got somethin to say?

[Toby]

dwid's hit the correct with a chi blast from 20 feet. In 3 days it will die of internal injuries.

[Vash]

dwid has rubbed the correct the wrong way with a Red Sand Palm. As of this printing, the correct was not planning to file charges.

[fiercest tiger]

If you twist your palm as you strike this can kill, if you know where!

FT

[No_Know]

Being able to kill well is no longer great celebrity. If they know they become target for redicule and scoffing, and the less scrupulus~ Possiblly unwanted attention. You might have to piece things together for a while and on day end-up comming across a master of that or not. It sounds danderous to find out success. They might have tests that indicate success, instead of bodies.

As far as pacifists if even it was the monks that did this, do you lay down your life for punks who change in three years or so or are confused/misled? If not then efficient killing of weak, hurting of stronger to intimidate bully gangs who run when the learder falls. this is more peaceful than killing them all. And if they are willing to kill a monk, then they might kill almost anyone. As long as you do not seek them, if they pick on you in those days then at least hrting them might save lives in that they might think twice before attacking another monk and perhaps anyone-ish else.

[ngokfei]

Sand Palm Skills are associated strongly with the Fan zi and Pi Gua styles.

that's all I know

oh and the table they strike is not low (waist height) but at chest height.

[Pakmei]

Hi there,
Hhhmmm.... Been a while since I posted on here!

Red Sand Palm is also known by the name "Cinnibar Palm", which pertains to the fact that such intense energy is cultivated from the Dan Tian (Cinnibar Field) and focused into the palms that the practitioners palms turns red because of the intensity of energy and blood circulation.

The training method for this is said to be by rubbing your hands over fine course sand. However, particular attention must be placed in the projection of qi from your palms to be able to influence the sand below your palms. Hence it's more internal (and destructive) nature, compared to conditioning your palms, hands, fists against bricks, wood, etc when training in iron palm, fist, etc.

Also, this equivalent to Chow Gar's method of training the "Blood Sand Palm", which is an internal method of Qi cultivation compared to the methods of the more external training methods of Iron Palm.

It is said that, when the practitioner strikes the opponents chest. They leave the palm impression where the blood stagnation has and is accumulating.... hence the name "Red / Blood Sand Palm".

[dwid]

Wow, holy thread resurrecting.

I looked back at my posts here and didn't recognize them at first. Then I realized I posted them like 2 years ago.

I prefer the cinnabun palm to cinnabar. Tastes better and takes much longer to kill you.

[TenTigers]

The cinnabun palm is deadly, especially when combined with the tomato kick.


( had a six year old student say that once, and I've been saying it ever since)

[dwid]

That is awesome.