Is Wing Chun Internal?

[Rory]

I asked my master who teaches (wu style taichi) if wing chun was external or internal he answered 50/50 he said becasuse of the sticky hands practice it was exposing them to the elements of push hands wich are very internal.

[Watchman]

Wow, I'm sure glad I'm being "exposed". :rolleyes:



Not to tire of learning is wisdom;
Not to weary of teaching is benevolence.
-- Tzu-kung

[Aeturnal]

ive been thinking of doin wing chun for a while and im curious as to how much of an internal element wing chun has...im still confused about the internal/external argument and whther one should supplement an external style like say muay thai, with an internal like tai chi....so how much of an internal element is there in wing chun?

[Mr Punch]

Yep, you seem confused.

You tell us what you think internal and external mean and we'll tell you loads of different things about our very different wing chuns!

Start by checking out the schools in your area, get back to us about what they are telling you, and what they are doing, and we'll try and tell you!

[Aeturnal]

well ive done yang tai chi myself....im very interested in the internal concept but your average tai chi school doesnt do sparring or anything that resembles real fighting....wing chun seems to possess the internal and external aspect which is why ive taken an interest, but again....

[sihing]

Internal/External, hard/soft, these are all terms to complicate things. If your looking for fighting effectiveness in what you do drop these words from your vocabulary. There are elements of aggressiveness and passiveness in fighting for sure, you can't always use "The Bull in the China Shop" menatlity to win, as you may met a bigger Bull someday, so you be submissive for a moment, play the Bull fighter and let the force go by while taking it advantage of it. None of this is mystical, just common sense.

James

[k gledhill]

external hard system delivering maximum force into a point ground 2 pound ....
want internal do cardio run 5 miles ...

[monji112000]

ive been thinking of doin wing chun for a while and im curious as to how much of an internal element wing chun has...im still confused about the internal/external argument and whther one should supplement an external style like say muay thai, with an internal like tai chi....so how much of an internal element is there in wing chun?

as much as you add to it. its not part of the original system.

[jet64]

ive been thinking of doin wing chun for a while and im curious as to how much of an internal element wing chun has...im still confused about the internal/external argument and whther one should supplement an external style like say muay thai, with an internal like tai chi....so how much of an internal element is there in wing chun?

straight answer, no, its not internal.

[YungChun]

IMO, after thinking this over for years...IS..

External = Low Road..

Internal = High Road..

Not soft and hard..

Low Road is technique that uses gross motor skills easily done under the adrenal dump..

High Road is technique that uses fine motor skills not easily done under the adrenal dump..

Most arts have both.. So it's up to the individual what he/she can use..

Low Road is accessible to all levels of experience..

Higher Road technique will work only for those who can retain more fine motor control and mental control over their glands....

[t_niehoff]

IMO, after thinking this over for years...IS..

External = Low Road..

Internal = High Road..

Not soft and hard..

Low Road is technique that uses gross motor skills easily done under the adrenal dump..

High Road is technique that uses fine motor skills not easily done under the adrenal dump..

Most arts have both.. So it's up to the individual what he/she can use..

Low Road is accessible to all levels of experience..

Higher Road technique will work only for those who can retain more fine motor control and mental control over their glands....

Great *theory* -- but the reality is, when you are fighting, you will not maintain "fine motor control". Nor will you control your glands (my Lord! where do people get such ideas?). And, it really has nothing to do with "adrenal dump" anyway. It has more to do with heart-rate, which pertains to our body adjusting to physical stress. When your heart-rate goes up over 145 bpm, complex and fine motor skills -- your motor coordination -- begin to deteriorate, and over 175 cognitive processing breaks down. This is just how our bodies function. Optimum range is 115 to 145. At that level, the stress actually imporves our performance. Only by practicing (sparring) in those ranges can we learn what things we can or cannot do and get enough rehersal doing them so that we are able to pull them off consistently.

My adivce to the original poster is to put the notion of internal/extrernal out of your mind -- it is a false "distinction" and is based on a fundamental misunderstanding of how the world really works. Instead, look for mechanics that best suit the task at hand (i.e., produce the best results).

[YungChun]

but the reality is, when you are fighting, you will not maintain "fine motor control".

Different people exhibit different levels of fine motor control under stress.. Different people exhibit different levels of stress.. Different people are different.. Grapplers apply moves that could be defined as FMC..

Nor will you control your glands (my Lord! where do people get such ideas?)

From seeing and experiencing the affects of adrenal stress training.. With more conditioning stress levels drop..

And, it really has nothing to do with "adrenal dump" anyway.

BS. It certainly does...

It has more to do with heart-rate, which pertains to our body adjusting to physical stress.

And it has to do with "the dump" as this and stress are interconnected.. In any case with AST and sport fighting experience and sparring experience, all these things including cardio will aid in reducing stress.. People perform better when there is less stress, but not no stress..

[Tom Kagan]

ive been thinking of doin wing chun for a while and im curious as to how much of an internal element wing chun has...im still confused about the internal/external argument and whther one should supplement an external style like say muay thai, with an internal like tai chi....so how much of an internal element is there in wing chun?

Internal vs. external is an arbitrary distinction which actually does not exist. It is a false duality.

The terminology was made up by Sun Lutang in the early 20th century. According to him, the only internal styles are Xing Yi, Tai Chi, and Ba Gua. Thus, according to this logic, everything in Ving Tsun is external no matter how much people might want to argue to the contrary.

So, pick one: internal, external, both, and/or neither. Using such labels to pigeonhole what is what within a given style won't change a thing, anyway.

[t_niehoff]

Different people exhibit different levels of fine motor control under stress.. Different people exhibit different levels of stress.. Different people are different.. Grapplers apply moves that could be defined as FMC..

Let's not make up our own definitions of FMC. Of course people are different. But generally, the parameters I indicated apply.

We become "better" at acting under stress by practice -- by acting under stress. And we come to understand how stress effects us by acting under stress.

From seeing and experiencing the affects of adrenal stress training.. With more conditioning stress levels drop..

As we become better conditioned athletes -- better accumstomed to fighting stresses on our body -- the greater amount of stresses we can handle. This is true of all athletics.

BS. It certainly does...

Adrenal dump has more to do with untrained people -- people dealing with unaccustomed stresses. I'm not saying that there isn't some adrenal activity involved. There certainly is. That's the butterflies any good fighter feels. But not a "dump." That's soemthing else entirely. And it inhibits skill.

And it has to do with "the dump" as this and stress are interconnected.. In any case with AST and sport fighting experience and sparring experience, all these things including cardio will aid in reducing stress.. People perform better when there is less stress, but not no stress..

You don't "reduce stress" -- becasue the situation doesn't change. You become better able to deal with that level of stress by becoming accustomed to it. By dealing with it over and over again. The "dump" comes on because we get a huge shock to our system, something we are not accustomed to dealing with. For example, for womeone who never spars, a good shot to the head causes the "dump" but to someone who spars a lot, the same shot is just another day at the office. He's used to them.

[uki]

ive been thinking of doin wing chun for a while and im curious as to how much of an internal element wing chun has...im still confused about the internal/external argument and whther one should supplement an external style like say muay thai, with an internal like tai chi....so how much of an internal element is there in wing chun?

dualism is an illusion. there cannot be one without the other. hard-soft, low-high, internal-external; all these words are merely labels that confuse the ignorant. practice according to the dictates of your mind. sometimes the weather is sunny and calm and at other times it is a raging hurricane; the same principles apply to martial arts.