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Thread: Hook

  1. #1
    BeiKongHui Guest

    Hook

    I'm curious to know how you guys deal with a good tight hook punch such as one a western boxer might throw?

    "Gong Sao Mo Gong Ching Sao"
    - When you talk with the hands,
    best not to speak of polite hands.

  2. #2
    Martial Joe Guest
    You have to move in and use your body.You cant just throw your arm out or he will hit you in the face.

  3. #3
    BeiKongHui Guest
    MJ- I doubt I could move in before a good boxer would tag me. What I do is a Fook Sao...if I can explain it...the same arm shape as a bong sao but with your palm down & fingers pointed like you're poking someone in the eyes who might be standing to the side. I whip it into the hook hard and fast so that the contact is on the inside of the wrist say around the area you'd buckle a watch band. It works well even against extremely hard punches but it's meeting force with force. Hope you can see what I'm trying to illustrate it's hard to describe.

    "Gong Sao Mo Gong Ching Sao"
    - When you talk with the hands,
    best not to speak of polite hands.

  4. #4
    OdderMensch Guest

    fuk those hooks up!

    heh

    anyway ive been taught to meet hooks in the same manner, with a fuk sau to the hooking arm. it may be meeting with force but then the stance comes into play. All that hooking energy goes from the fuk, to my stance then back up into the punch that the other hand is throwing. use a "stance turn" and its all gravy.

  5. #5
    Martial Joe Guest
    Bei,have you ever done this yourself?

  6. #6
    mun hung Guest
    Favorites would be tan-da and pak-da.

  7. #7
    nickle Guest

    ???

    i think you guys are missing the point, its a tight hook he's talking about. ie one where the elbow is bent almost 90 degrees. maybe im being ignorant, if so sorry, but i dont get how you can use a fook on that,,, or a tan da for that matter. or come in close and let the hook slide round the back of your head.

    personally id either back away, duck or put my elbow up like in fight club...i think thats a pretty good way to stop a tight hook...even though it hurts like hell.

    -specialization is for ants-

  8. #8
    Watchman Guest

    Tight hooks

    Boxers/good punchers usually throw those tight hooks you're talking about from a clinch. When "at range", they'll usually set up with jab/cross combos, so you won't normally find a boxer jumping in at you with a tight hook -- there are better ways to turn your face into hamburger while they are probing forward across the gap.

    To land a tight hook with power, like you are describing, means the opponent is trying to tear your head off from a clinch/clinching range.

    If he's that close, you don't have the space to tan da, or the time/positiong to pak da. To throw a tight hook from a clinch, he's going to drop the punching shoulder and open a slight space.

    IMHO, the best thing to do is shoot your forearm forward in a sat sau/fak sau movement into the side of his neck while you simultaneously bring an upward elbow into position that will double as a wu sau at that range to cover yourself. (If he's hooking with his right arm, shoot your right forearm foward while you bring up your left elbow.)

    You are going to find more efficiency and power if you don't try to "block" the punch, but tear into his operational balance structure. If you go for a "block" he'll just try and hit you with the other hand, and you'll be in a speed war (which is fine if you're the quickest guy on the block, but for sloths like myself - we've got to find a better way).

    A sat sau (Executing Hand) shot to the neck area as he tries to land his punch will tear him backwards off of his balance base, retard the power in his strike, and seal him off from launching potential follow-up punches.

    Once you nail him with the forearm, immediately bring your elbow over in a kup jarn movement to split the side of his face open, then blast away with chain punches.

    The name of the game is this type of fighting is FOLLOW-UP. Bring that kup jarn in as soon as you nail him with the sat sau, then start blasting away with everything available.

    These movements for "clinch fighting" are found in the first section of Biu Tze. Nasty stuff. :D



    Sunt hic etiam sua praemia laveli
    "Here too virtue has its due reward."

    [This message was edited by Watchman on 05-06-01 at 01:19 PM.]

  9. #9
    BeiKongHui Guest
    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Bei,have you ever done this yourself? [/quote]

    MJ-Yes, I have and it does work even against stronger & larger opponents but it hurts like hell! :) I'm hoping to find a more efficient and painless way to do it though.

    "Gong Sao Mo Gong Ching Sao"
    - When you talk with the hands,
    best not to speak of polite hands.

  10. #10
    Martial Joe Guest
    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>personally id either back away, duck or put my elbow up like in fight club [/quote]

    Nickle...Are you sure your a Wing Chun guy.

    Bei-Well ill take your word for it but i saw wong shun leung do what i was talking about.It worked without the pain...

  11. #11
    popsider Guest
    Martial Joe,

    Can you expand on what you mean by move in and use your body?

  12. #12
    nickle Guest

    hahaha

    yeah martial, im sure... i know that that isnt the most orthodox wing chun stuff in the world :) but remember that i am only a beginner.

    :)

    just trying to offer my 2 cents.

    maybe when i do the next 2 forms ill know what to do against a tight hook. a longer range hook is much easier.

    -specialization is for ants-

  13. #13
    mun hung Guest

    different strokes for different folks

    BeiKongHui - the arm positioning that you've mentioned does'nt sound like a fook sau. It sounds more like a lan sau. Using the lan sau can be rather dangerous also since the hook can come in at any height and not just to the face. Lan sau does'nt cover enough area - unless of course, you're really good.

    I have to agree a little with MJ about moving in and using the body. Whipping down the tan sau from the bong sau position in tan da as you move in and punch works for me. The elbow from bong sau protects you to a certain extent until it turns to tan. The tan sau has to come down hard and with enough force in order for it to prevent the hook from coming in.

    watchman - I know what you mean by clinching range, but IMHO you should not find yourself in that range unless you are prepared to deal with that tight hook in the first place.

  14. #14
    Watchman Guest
    >>>>>watchman - I know what you mean by clinching range, but IMHO you should not find yourself in that range unless you are prepared to deal with that tight hook in the first place.<<<<<

    I agree with you on that one. In fact, my philosophy is: don't get clinched. Tight hooks from a good puncher are dangerous.

    The hook that was being discussed (arm bent at 90 degrees) isn't going to happen unless the guy is already in clinching range, or is in the process of moving into the clinch -- meaning he's in real close, or he's trying to get real close. With this in mind, and taking into account that if he has any punching power at all, then he'll have some serious momentum behind him. Normally, if they're coming in hard and fast from that close you don't really have the time or space to perform a textbook tan da or pak da to prevent from having your brains spill out of your ears.

    IMHO, don't chase the punch. Use your simultaneous movement (with a forearm and elbow)and the space being opened by the hook to attack his body structure (where his power is coming from anyway).

    Of course, the response always depends on the particular circumstances. If he's a dolt trying to throw a hook from outside of your bridge, just shift your hips to give you some arm extension and shove his teeth down his throat.



    Sunt hic etiam sua praemia laveli
    "Here too virtue has its due reward."

  15. #15
    panos Guest

    pak sao??

    Maybe what i'll suggest is already been said but i am not yet familiar with all chinese terms. How about trying to use a pak sao on his bicep. It is kind of an unusual tactic but it works. You can either use to control his punch and avoid it since it less powerfull if catch it back there or you can pack hard on his bicep and hurt his arm. It is of course a very close distance technique but a hook punch is one also.

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