Hook

[Vankuen]

Who's the asian guy in the pic sharky? That tan sau looks a little structurally weak to me, if that is a tan sau at all. Just an observation. No offensive intent there...just something I was looking at.

"From one thing know ten thousand" - Miyomato Musashi, Book of five rings

"Loy lau hoi sung, lut sau jik chung"

[Scott]

I didn't take time to read all the responses since I had already formulated my answer. While this may not fit some Wing Chun theory I believe it's by far the best answer...

A hook doesn't move forward, so a slight move backwards will dodge it easily. Your weight should already be at least 70% on your back leg, 100% depending on your lineage, so just lean into it, bend your back knee a little, and move backwards with your upper body. The range of a hook is very limited, you can then move forward and attack.

Some people will say that this is not a forward 'conquering' motion and therefor is bad Wing Chun, but at the same time this motion does not cause you to lose ground or give up your position.

-Scott

"I'm just an actor, just like Robert f***ing Redford when I say those stupid words that they expect me to say."--Art Alexakis

[Scott]

While I still hold by my answer of leaning backwards, which should be full-proof, I just remembered that we do train a block that may work in this situation, though I've never tried it.

I have no idea what the block is called, but it basically involves whipping your arm out to the outside (left hand to the left or right arm to the right, never across your body) and when contact is made, snapping your hand so that it is basically a Wu Sau done at a horrendous angle far out from your body. I think it was made with a move more like the Choy Lay Fut downward punch in mind, but it may work on a hook.

I still say... Lean back. When his hook misses, lean forward and press your attack. I think that application is really more of a JKD thing, but if it works.. *shrug*

-Scott

"I'm just an actor, just like Robert f***ing Redford when I say those stupid words that they expect me to say."--Art Alexakis

[aelward]

Scott writes:
> A hook doesn't move forward, so a slight move
> backwards will dodge it easily.

While a tight hook might not be moving forward in relation to the boxer's body, that body may be moving forward. For example, someone may lead with a jab, and step in while bending the elbow to ****, and then hit with a hook. Or even off of the cross or uppercut, it is possible the person may step in with a hook. Not to mention all the people who try to imitate boxers and arc those hooks slightly forward.

So while you're leaning back, you may want to cover up a little as well, just in case that hook DOES have some forward qualities to it. :P.

JK-
"Sex on TV doesn't hurt unless you fall off."

[Vankuen]

There are such things as lunging hooks! When I boxed I used a really nice whipping hook...Ive been told it was really deceptive, and effective. I usually knocked down just about everyone it made contact with.

It basically looked like a lead straight, but then hooking in at the last moment, combined with footwork of course to move in and add to the whip and angle. Very JKD'ish. But effective!

Everyone is different...gotta watch out for the ones that dont fight in conventional methods.

"From one thing know ten thousand" - Miyomato Musashi, Book of five rings

"Loy lau hoi sung, lut sau jik chung"

[hunt1]

there are no blocks in WC.you do not block a hook.there is no need if you understand and have the confidence to perform WC as intended.Vankuen gives aperfect example of why not to block.I have trained against professional boxers.Hooks are easy to stop unless you try to block them.You will end up blocking with your head.
I am talking about a hook not a round punch by the way.couse you dont block a round punch either but they are much less dangerous.

[BeiKongHui]

Imagine you are squared off with an opponent.

Now the shape is essentially the same as a Bong Sao with the wrist on the center line. But drop your elbow so that your arm has a "goose neck" shape to it and the hand is more or less above the elbow, straight up and down. It should be the same angle as the bong sao more or less. Now if the hand (your fook sao) is aiming at the shoulder of your imaginary opponent as he hooks you (keeping the same shape)swing your fook sao out to meet it but allow your elbow to move off center and around your ribs to protect them.. Always aim at the shoulder and swing outward and you will never miss the hook. I find this works better than a Tan Sao because the oppoent can't come around it as easily. I know this is a crappy description if you need more maybe I can get a picture or something.

Now a some things on this Fook Sao: 1)You will move off your own center as your elbow will move around your ribs as you accept the hook. 2)The purists will hate this move because it can be force on force but it works. 3)Maintain the "golden angle" or whatever the minimum elbow angle is for the bong sao so it won't collapse in on you. 4)The beauty of this is you can block a hook to the head or maintaining the same shape just lower it a bit and the elbow will stop the hook to the ribs. 5)I've used it in the clinch and it worked. 6)My 120lbs. wife has made it work against much, much larger opponents who were skilled in boxing and San Shou so it's structuarlly sound. 7)I try to catch hooks to the head by flicking the fook sao out really fast and hard so that the hook contacts the bone on the opposite side of my wrist from the thumb. This often hurts the opponent. 8)Make it a Fook Dar or step in and use an elbow simultaneously.

Like I say I'm sure some will say this is a violation of principal but the only violations that matter in my book are the ones that don't work and I've used this movement successfully against much stronger opponents. Play with it and make it your own. Good luck.

I have learned silence from the talkative, toleration from the intolerant, and kindness from the unkind; yet, strange, I am ungrateful to these teachers.
--Khalil Gibran

[wingchunalex]

sorry guys, tan da does work, and a boxer doesnt just throw good hooks from a clinch. my sifu learned to box scientifically from age nine all the way throught his teen years, he's as good at boxing as he is wing chun (but he focuses on wing chun now). for tan to work you have to face the punch with your tan, have it on center and face the punch and da. the other thing you can do is bil sau it. with a good boxer they will set you up with a jab, then slip your punch and come from under you on a side. (mike tyson was great at this move). you will also have to be even more weary of there shots to the body.

know yourself don't show yourself, think well of yorself don't tell of yourself. lao tzu

[whippinghand]

You break it.

[Vankuen]

Im starting to wonder if you know anything at all. I sometimes see some information come from you that seems useful to the people on here, but for the most part, you seem very, how do you say..."up on yourself"?

"From one thing know ten thousand" - Miyomato Musashi, Book of five rings

"Loy lau hoi sung, lut sau jik chung"

[Sharky]

Ok Sharky....
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Imagine you are squared off with an opponent.
Now the shape is essentially the same as a Bong Sao with the wrist on the center line. But drop your elbow so that your arm has a "goose neck" shape to it and the hand is more or less above the elbow, straight up and down. It should be the same angle as the bong sao more or less. Now if the hand (your fook sao) is aiming at the shoulder of your imaginary opponent as he hooks you (keeping the same shape)swing your fook sao out to meet it but allow your elbow to move off center and around your ribs to protect them.. Always aim at the shoulder and swing outward and you will never miss the hook. I find this works better than a Tan Sao because the oppoent can't come around it as easily. I know this is a crappy description if you need more maybe I can get a picture or something.

Now a some things on this Fook Sao: 1)You will move off your own center as your elbow will move around your ribs as you accept the hook. 2)The purists will hate this move because it can be force on force but it works. 3)Maintain the "golden angle" or whatever the minimum elbow angle is for the bong sao so it won't collapse in on you. 4)The beauty of this is you can block a hook to the head or maintaining the same shape just lower it a bit and the elbow will stop the hook to the ribs. 5)I've used it in the clinch and it worked. 6)My 120lbs. wife has made it work against much, much larger opponents who were skilled in boxing and San Shou so it's structuarlly sound. 7)I try to catch hooks to the head by flicking the fook sao out really fast and hard so that the hook contacts the bone on the opposite side of my wrist from the thumb. This often hurts the opponent. 8)Make it a Fook Dar or step in and use an elbow simultaneously.

Like I say I'm sure some will say this is a violation of principal but the only violations that matter in my book are the ones that don't work and I've used this movement successfully against much stronger opponents. Play with it and make it your own. Good luck.

I have learned silence from the talkative, toleration from the intolerant, and kindness from the unkind; yet, strange, I am ungrateful to these teachers.
--Khalil Gibran

========================

Argh! Thanks for your kind post mate, but i can't visualise the move? Do u mean like a tan sau, which is moved of centre, and then the wrist is bent to a fook sau? I remember doing this in class ages ago. Please clarify! :)

"Spectacular immaculate raps massacre cats like dracula bats, I'm snappin yer back cos I'm attackin the wack, duckin yer rapid attack, **** packin a gat, the mechanic of rap'll give you panic attacks with his Satanical raps." - Guess who.

[Sharky]

as i re read u post, i am beginning to understand :) It *is* like i was imagining i think? If you start in tan sau, but move your elbow off centre to round near ur outside ribs, and have ur wrist bent and ur fook pointing away from you? Is that it? My sihing once showed me that man, but i'd forgotten it......

"Spectacular immaculate raps massacre cats like dracula bats, I'm snappin yer back cos I'm attackin the wack, duckin yer rapid attack, **** packin a gat, the mechanic of rap'll give you panic attacks with his Satanical raps." - Guess who.

[Scott]

Lean backwards and block with a Wu Sau the arm opposite of the hook, on the outside of the attacking arm. The lean should grant you space. Your opposite arm shifts from Wu Sau to a grab/pull technique (its in Wing Chun and Chin Na) and grabs their hook from the outside and pulls down and across their own body (trapping) as you step in and punch. Pivot at the same time as the pull to increase the motion and snapping force and throw your opponent off balance.

This would be nigh impossible if you didn't lean backwards and pivot at the same time as the hook, because of the proximity of the attack.

This doesn't break any principles because it's not "Blocking," it's just carrying through with the motion that's already in place.

-Scott

"I'm just an actor, just like Robert f***ing Redford when I say those stupid words that they expect me to say."--Art Alexakis

[Sharky]

it does, cos you're leaning back and breaking the correct structure.

are we forgetting how fast a hook actually is here people?

"Spectacular immaculate raps massacre cats like dracula bats, I'm snappin yer back cos I'm attackin the wack, duckin yer rapid attack, **** packin a gat, the mechanic of rap'll give you panic attacks with his Satanical raps." - Guess who.

[Roy D. Anthony]

Tan Dah is a very good answer to a hook punch. Also depending on your range at which the Hook punch is coming in moving back a bit letting it pass and jut sao followed with a Wing Chun Horizontal Hook punch works extremely well. Hope this Helps.