Wing Chun Footwork

[BiuJee]

could someone please explain in wing chun what is triangle footwork? is it the stepping forward from yee jee kim yeung ma? or something else?
also, if someone could breakdown and describe the footwork in chum kiu and biu jee it would be appreciated. just simply what stances are employed in each section (with chinese name as well).
i learned the forms, but never had the footwork explained to me fully. thanks in advance.

[BiuJee]

......

[BiuJee]

can't someone help me out here?

[jutsow]

come on guys. i am ordering youto help this nice fellow out.
that should get you some answers biu jee.


your welcome :)

[Watchman]

First of all, different Wing Chun lineages use somewhat different terminology sometimes, so here goes my take on "triangle stepping":

To visualize it, superimpose a triangle parallel to the floor in between you and your opponent. You stand at the point, he stands at the base.

As he moves his body forward, either to step to gain position or to launch an attack, you make one step right down the angle of the triangle (which simultaneously moves you out of the way of the line of force AND bridges the gap). The leg you use to step with depends on which direction you move: if you go left - step with the left leg, if you go right - step with the right leg (easy, right?).

After the first step you IMMEDIATELY cross your back leg through and step right toward the opponent's center. This brings you in on an angle allowing you to trap his closest limbs while his other limbs are too far out of range to be applied in the fight.

The two steps should be chained together and made rapid. From the opponent's perspective it seems as though you quickly weave out of his line of fire and come right into his blind side where he can't defend himself.

This stepping comes from Biu Tze's huen bo ("circling leg") motions, and you see the whole process applied in the second section of the Bot Cham Do.

As far as the footwork stances and names from your forms, this is Ip Ching terminology:

Siu Lim Tao: "Siu Lim Tao Ma" or "Yee Chee Kim Yeung Ma" (Character Two Adduction Stance) or "Ding Ma" (frontal stance)....all names for the same thing.

Chum Kiu: "Chum Kiu Ma", which is the turned position, also could be called the "sidling stance". The process to move into that stance is also called "Cho Ma" or "shifting stance". From Chum Kiu Ma you've got the moving stances of "Toh Ma" or "Chasing Stance" and "Biu Ma" or "shooting stance."

Biu Tze: you've got "Huen Bo" or circling leg movements.

Every piece of footwork in Wing Chun can be found in application in the 1st section of the Mook Yan Chong. Using the aforementioned stances in footwork you have learned in the hand forms see the following principles of footwork applied into an opponent:

1) "Ding Ma" forward stance - any application of hand/arm power while using your Yee Chee Kim Yeung Ma to root.

2) "Cho Ma" shifting/turning stance - redirecting force and/or simultaneously using your "Yiu Ma", or waist power, to add power to your striking.

3) "Toh Ma" chasing stance - stepping to gain position.

4) "Jeet Ma" intercepting stance - here's your triangle stepping applied on the wooden dummy that uses the Huen Bo movements from Biu Tze to simultaneously sidestep your opponent and to gain superior position.

5) "Toi Ma" dissipating stance - yielding under pressure by circling your leg back and simultaneously shifting your weight to redirect a trap or to preserve your balance.

Hope I din't confuse you more than I helped. As everyone else on this forum would agree -- it's much easier to show you than to try and type out an explanation.

"Learning without thought is labour lost; thought without learning is perilous." -- Confucious

[BiuJee]

thank you. you have answered more questions than you could know. the footwork was never explained to me, i was simply expected to follow along without explanation.

one last question if you would be so kind; what is the difference between toh mah and biu mah? which is applied in the 2nd and 3rd section of chum kiu?

again, thank you for answering my questions, and yes believe it or not i do understand. your explantation was right on the money.

peace

[Watchman]

The difference between the two is this:

Toh Ma is used when you have already bridged the gap and are in contact with your opponent. It is applied in relatively small motions to gain superior position and utilize the root off your back leg to apply power in order to redirect the opponent's movements and to get him trapped. To do it, you stretch forward your lead leg a bit, then use your adduction power to slide yourself forward as you pick up your feet. Sort of like a really tight, compact fencing shuffle. An analogy that will help make sense of the way the steps are used is kind of the way you use an auto jack to ratchet up your car. Each little step ratchets in your power and holds it secure. Also, the term "chasing stance" is there because the stance is used to continually reposition yourself relative to where your opponent's center is going. Kind of like a compass needle always moving to point north. Therefore, you are "chasing" the other guy's center.

Biu Ma is the king of stepping motions! It's your "whole body power move". Biu Ma is utilized in two different aspects. 1) to bridge the gap, and 2) to bring down the Wrath of God in your striking once you've found your opening with Toh Ma. To perform it, you use the same body mechanics as Toh Ma, but you begin by sinking your weight a bit into your back leg and generate your power by pushing (or "shooting") off the weighted ankle and knee to propell yourself forward. You can see that it will get you across the gap a lot faster than using Toh Ma's shuffling movements. Also, you break out your Biu Ma when you've got an opening through positioning/trapping/ etc. to lay in your striking power by generating the force from your supporting leg and "shooting" forward. It's like the difference between hitting the guy with a brick....or hitting him with the whole **** brick wall.

Seen in this light, Toh Ma and Biu Ma should be used interchangably. To use an example:

I face my opponent. I "shoot" to bridge the gap and make contact with him. Two quick "chases" trap his arms and discharge his power. Now that I have him under control and open to destroy, I "shoot" again through his defenses to tear his head off.

Also, sometimes you never have to use Toh Ma to ratchet in your power because you are so clean in your stepping and the other guy has no clue how to protect his center. Like, if someone tries to lay in a power strike toward you and you shoot your triangle stepping in with Biu Ma (since nearly ever time you would ever triangle step it's done by utilizing Biu Ma's power), and he doesn't shift his position to follow you very well, you will nail him on his umprotected side and it's game over.

Footwork is pretty much the driving factor to everything. All that fancy hand stuff we all like to practice so much doesn't do you a whole lot of good if you can't get into the right place at the right time with the right power.

As Sun-Tzu says, "It's all about the strategic positiong (Hsing) baby!"

"Learning without thought is labour lost; thought without learning is perilous." -- Confucious

[This message was edited by Watchman on 03-29-01 at 10:35 AM.]

[Vankuen]

Those were very good explanations, I didnt really have a question on it but you sure as hell helped me to understand better too! Thanks!

"From one thing know ten thousand things" - Miyomato Musashi, Book of five rings

[Watchman]

Well, you're welcome, but the explanations don't come from any great ability on my part.

I had two older kung fu brothers when I first started learning Chum Kiu and Chi Sau years ago that would toss me on my @ss every time I would work out with them in class. The real frustrating part of it all was the fact that both of them were physically about half my size.

Getting dropped all the time by little guys tends to get you to start asking questions about what your problem is, so my sifu informed me that I had a naturally high center of gravity and really needed to train my footwork more if I wanted to get any good. So, he explained all the footwork principles to me like you would to a mentally slow child, and gave me a bunch of footwork drills to work at home which I practiced religiously until I no longer went down.

Now that it's years later, both of my kung fu brothers can still smack me around like a red-headed step child, but at least they can't throw me. :D

[BiuJee]

thanks again for the info; i know it seems a little strange that someone would learn wing chun and not have the footwork details explained to them, by my teacher spoke little english and didn't like to give explanations.
anyway, just wanted to say thanks again.
also jutsow, thanks for the prompting.

peace

[dave the dragon]

hi watchman its pick your brains time !

"gave me a bunch of footwork drills to work at home which I practiced religiously until I no longer went down"

can you remember any of those drills as i too have a problem with wing chun footwork.

i have no teacher at the moment. so any solitary drills would be most useful. :)

[WCFish]

Hi Watchman,
Can you please tell me what you mean by "adduction power".
Thanks

[Watchman]

Dave,

Here's are some beneficial solo footwork drills that my Sifu gave me:

Find a "runway" somewhere where you can draw a chalk line, lay down some masking tape, or use an existing reference point like a painted line, crack in your garage floor, etc. Start on one end in a forward facing stance (Chum Kiu Ma) pointing down the line.

The drill works like this -- shoot forward with Biu Ma (pressing off the back leg) using two steps to build momentum, and as soon as your lead leg touches the ground on the second step you immediately perform a 180 degree shift to face back the opposite direction...without throwing yourself off the line. The trick is using the drill to learn to control the placement of your center of gravity by rotating your hips properly and sinking. Once you've shifted, take a sec to relax, then shoot forward two steps again to shift 180 degrees.

The drill also doubles as an excellent plyometric exercise that will smoke you pretty fast and get that blood pumping.

Another drill is to use the same "runway" and line as above, but draw a shorter line intersecting the runway line (the lines will look like a "T").

Stand in your stance on the shorter intersecting line facing down the long one. First, shift your weight over to the right foot as you turn your hips 45 degrees (just like in Chum Kiu) so your balance is completely on one side of the runway line.

As soon as your stance goes 100/0 you immiately transfer your weight forward onto your unweighted leg without turning your hips (Biu Tze/Bot Cham Do) until your balance is all the over on the other side of the runway line.

Then, as soon as your weight goes 100/0 you immediately circle your back unweighted leg in toward you and then out forward to the runway line as you simultaneously shift your hips and turn your body to face the direction your foot is moving (Huen Bo from Biu Tze).

As soon as your circling leg reaches out and touches the runway line you use your adductor muscles to suck your back leg in underneath you and onto the runway line so your body and legs are facing completely down the line. When you get here you drop back to the starting position and begin it all again on the opposite side.

Once you get the hang of it you can start speeding up the shifting and stepping so you can work on your full-body timing and power development.

If the above description is confusing, or doesn't make any sense at all, I'll dig through my office and try and find some pictures that illustrate what you're trying to accomplish.

[Note: the above drill trains the Ip Ching Wing Chun 50/50 to 100/0 to 50/50 footwork structure. In addition, it illustrates that the "100/0 Stances" aren't really "stances" like they are commonly referred to. The 100/0 footwork transitions are just that - transitions. When done properly the transitions have a "bobbing/slipping" effect which is sort of analagous to a boxer's "bobbing & weaving" (i.e. when a punch is thrown at me while I'm 50/50 I can shift sharply into 100/0 while I simultaneously circle and step into the opponent to counter-attack).]

In addition, if your instructor has a Mui Fa Chong (Plum Blossom Poles) at your shcool ask him for some stepping drills (or you can go buy some short posts and bolt them to a sheet of plywood in order to practice at home).

Having to maintain your balance and weight distribution when you can't just slide your feet across the floor really works the principles. There are also some two-man stepping drills for the Mui Fa Chong wherin you alternatingly apply pressure into your partner's arms while he's stepping and vice versa. This teaches you to maintain your balance and fighting structure while under pressure -- which is exactly what you need to learn for fighting because your opponent isn't usually going to stop his attacks to watch your fancy footwork.

If you get into learning the Bot Cham Do you'll find some amazing things you can do with your footwork using your "knife-stepping" (the half-step and cross-through full-step) along with Huen Bo. It's incredibly fast and works angles that make it extremely hard for the opponent to respond to (which is a big benefit in knife fighting :D ).

WCFish,

Sorry for not answering your question on the other post.

"Adduction power" is a pressure in your stance you create using your adductor muscles (on the inside top of your legs) by slightly squeezing your legs with a three-dimensional pressure that goes in, down and forward all at the same time (you'll have to experiment with the pressure to get it down).

When you activate the adduction power in your stance it makes your Yee Chee Kim Yeung Ma "alive" because the self-induced pressure locks in your legs with your hips - which means every time you use your hips to move or turn (like you should always do) the adduction power keeps your legs immediately underneath you.

When you do this it gets your entire body moving together as one unit, which translates into funneling the momentum and power of your entire body into each hand movement and attacking motion. I used the phrase before, but it's like the difference between hitting someone with a brick versus hitting them with the entire brick wall.



One is weak because he makes preparation against others;
he has strength because he makes others prepare against him.
-- Sun-Tzu

[This message was edited by Watchman on 07-10-01 at 09:24 AM.]

[firedragon]

watchman,

thank you for taking the time to explain the footwork. even better would be some pics to visualize everything. please dig up some drawings and post them... or if you got some good links on footwork.

[Watchman]

I just got my digi cam working, so I may be able to post some stuff that will illustrate the footwork shortly.

Be patient, as I'm a notorious procrastinator......El Clap is still waiting for a pic of my wooden Bot Cham Do. :rolleyes: :D



One is weak because he makes preparation against others;
he has strength because he makes others prepare against him.
-- Sun-Tzu