japanese hostages return

[ZIM]

I don't expect this to become a popular thread, mind you- but I was a little amazed at the cultural differences in viewpoint...

Apparently the Japanese hostages were greeted in a much different way than you would expect.

"You got what you deserve!" read one hand-written sign at the airport where they landed. "You are Japan's shame," another wrote on the Web site of one of the former hostages. They had "caused trouble" for everybody. The government, not to be outdone, announced it would bill the former hostages $6,000 for air fare.

Beneath the surface of Japan's ultra-sophisticated cities lie the hierarchical ties that have governed this island nation for centuries and that, at moments of crises, invariably reassert themselves. The former hostages' transgression was to ignore a government advisory against traveling to Iraq. But their sin, in a vertical society that likes to think of itself as classless, was to defy what people call here "okami," or, literally, "what is higher."

Wow. There was also an article about the cultural reasons behind defying the hostage-takers at Asia Times Online, if you're curious...

ON EDIT: Then again, if it was Canada and Kung Lek were at the airport, I wouldn't be surprised...

[WanderingMonk]

I saw this story on NY Times when it came out. It was really crazy. My bro was telling me that the Japanese was even mistreating those people who were victims of Japanese subway gas attack.

[oasis]

the reactions of the japanese public is indeed lamentable. i can somewhat expect the government to criticize people for taking risks, but to make the former hostages accept blame and pubicly apologize with a bow is not called for, especially after these people just experienced the trauma of being threatened under captivity.

And ZIM, who are you addressing with "6 days you dog" (the arabic in your sig). are you referring to 1967 by any chance?

[Ryu]

really? That's funny..... all the Japanese people I know here and in Japan feel nothing but empathy for the people gassed in the subway.

The article talks about how these three people directly violated the government's orders to go to Iraq because of this very possibility. They went anyway, got kidnapped, and were used as a threat to the Japanese troops there. They put the lives of many people in danger, and that's why some of the Japanese (not all, that article is very misleading) are angry with these people when they got back.

I was discussing this very story with my girlfriend from Tokyo not more than two days ago.
Apparently a lot of the Japanese have different opinions regarding this.
Not simply blind anger or warped sense of justice.

Sad.

Ryu

[oasis]

i wasn't trying to generalize about the entire japanese public. i was just referring to the many that did condemn the former hostages. you're right that the article does seem to imply a more ****genous view of the public though.

as for breaking the law, as i understood the article, the government only advised against travelling to iraq. it is b/c of this incident that the politicians are considering making a law to forbid its citizens from travelling to dangerous spots.

[YinYangDagger]

from what I've read from this and many other stories regarding today's Japan, it seems like the Japanese people are turning to a bunch of weak-kneed cowards...

so much for the strong Samurai nation of yesteryear

just my opinion...

[David Jamieson]

ON EDIT: Then again, if it was Canada and Kung Lek were at the airport, I wouldn't be surprised...

You know, comments of this nature are just indicative of an intolerant and unaccepting mindset zim.

You are just joining in with a group of apparently right wing neo con ditto heads who frequent these boards and talk all sorts of crap about honour and greatness and what not.

Yet another Bushie? Is that you? It is unfortunate
Your man is the "wrong" man i am afraid, but that will come to light eventually.

I am amused that you and those who are like minded and make these attacks on my position are unable to seriously answer to any of the questions I have posed and instead rely on shouting "conspiracy" or "that's not true". And cannot give one answer or one road to where an answer may be.

As for the japanese, I don't have a clue as to how or why their culture works the way it does, but I can tell you this much, Bushes war on Iraq is unsupported by the majority of the people on the planet. THat is quite clear by the lack of resources extended and the fact that none of us are going to support the US current presidential administrations current aggression towards that country no matter how much cnn attempts to explain it away.

I am sorry that Mr.Bush has no value for the lives of his own people. That is his shame and that will be his mark on history. He is an aggressor and a war monger, he is a neo-conservative war monger and he pays for his acts with the american taxpayers dollar.

people who wave flags and spout nonsense are not activists, they are just buying into the aggressive acts of the president and his henchmen.

I don't know how many more times I'm gonna need to repeat that, but I will repeat it as many times as is necessary I guess. I am not trying to silence you guys at all, I am just attempting to help you understand that the world does NOT support the Bush doctrine of pre-emptive strikes and unilateral war making.

[joedoe]

Originally posted by YinYangDagger
from what I've read from this and many other stories regarding today's Japan, it seems like the Japanese people are turning to a bunch of weak-kneed cowards...

so much for the strong Samurai nation of yesteryear

just my opinion...

How so? Because they oppose war?

[unkokusai]

What is not so widely reported in the western press is just what a-holes these people were. First, the 'dramatic' footage of them being held at knife point was staged. They later said that they knew they were in no danger at that point. Second, when they were released, one local religious leader who had worked hard on securing their release wanted to embrace them (he was so happy they had returned unharmed). The woman wouldn't even stand up to hug the guy, she sat there chewing gum, one of the men couldn't be bothered to put down his smoke and just gave the guy a half a shoulder hug, being careful not to drop his cig., the other guy sat there looking indifferent. This was widely shown on tv in Japan. Then when they did return home, they gave interviews that were very heavy on criticizing the international effort in Iraq (and Japan's role in particular) and very very short on gratitude. At least two of them vowed to return to Iraq (and presumably get in the way again) as soon as possible. All of the above contributed to a public perception of these folks. There are 400-something SDF troops in Iraq trying to do some serious large-scale infrastructure work for the people of that land, and three selfish yahoos put their interests (however well intentioned) ahead of everyone else and jeopardized the work being done there. They are lucky if they are only charged for airfare.

[ZIM]

Originally posted by oasis

And ZIM, who are you addressing with "6 days you dog" (the arabic in your sig). are you referring to 1967 by any chance?

Nobody in particular. It does refer to 1967 in fact, but there's no 'bizzatch' in Arabic, so "dog" had to do. That Israeli Air force is phenomenal! You know, I wanted to do it in Hebrew, but I couldn't work it out....
---------------------
Back to the topic:

Hey, I'll agree that I'd rather pay 6 thou than get killed any day. I didn't think it was true that all Japanese had this kind of reaction, which was part of the reason I brought it up here, of all places- if anybody knew better, they'd be here.

KL- Its a joke, man. Its alright for you to be offended by the dig, but it was a joke. I'm not offended by your remarks. I tend to go my own way on things political, though obviously right of you.

Everybody: KL would not have been at the airport. Got it? Good.

[David Jamieson]

dude-

it's (Iraq/terrorists/the middle east situation/ et al) a sensitive subject.

Don't expect people to just think of it as a joke. I certainly don't.

anyway, just sayin

[ZIM]

Ok, fair enough. I've been away for awhile, don't know how it's been around here.

I just remember a lot of the posting wars between you guys, same playas, same subjects.

My thinking over the thing has evolved over the period of my away-ness. I still don't agree with the entry into the 'smaller war' [iraq] but I do agree with the necessity of it, so that's a hard one.

the 'larger war' [that on terror] is tougher: Its not settled precisely what that is, or when it will be declared fini. I agree wholeheartedly with that one, but I see the problems, not the least of which is the temptation to label all middle eastern ppl 'terrorist' or to label all islamic ppl 'terrorist'.

But i'll say this: I'm sick and tired of having to roll back my culture to accommodate those who are 'offended' by it [meaning: vocal arabic minorities in USA] when in fact their culture offends me. And its not racism- i'm offended by their screwed up justice systems, their policies towards women, their defense of terrorists, their equivocations in the face of open sedition. And i'm sick of politicians who let it happen, defending them in the name of some PC or partisan BS. Jeebus, you come to america to escape the old world, folks- or you don't come here. The Lady says: "Yearning to breathe FREE", not 'to keep on keeping on'.

If a person is middle eastern and islamic *and a terrorist*, then thats enough for me, get it? I don't have to know what his beliefs are, because they count for nothing. The key is the terrorism part.

And like all of the other threads on religion or anything else, it won't be solved here on a kung fu board, so I see little point in playing the elder statesmen- or the younger one.

Ah whatever. this has gone on longer than i wanted it to. Pfft.

[WanderingMonk]

I can't find a link to the info about condemnation of those Japanese victims in the subway attack, so I'll take that back.

I find unkokusai's descriptions of these hostage a bit suspect, so I went to Asahi Shimbun and track this down. I flip thru a couple articles and can't find much info on how much jerks these hostages were.

http://www.asahi.com/english/world/TKY200404200161.html

Freed pair say they were held as spies, not hostages

The Asahi Shimbun
Junpei Yasuda, left, and Nobutaka Watanabe talk to reporters at a hotel in Amman, Jordan, on Sunday, the day after their release.

Their captors threatened them with death if they were working with the Americans.

AMMAN, Jordan-Human rights activist Nobutaka Watanabe, 36, and freelance journalist Junpei Yasuda, 30, said Sunday they were held hostage in Iraq last week because their captors thought they were spies.

The two met reporters at a hotel here after flying in from Baghdad, where they were released Saturday. They had been missing since Wednesday.

Their news conference followed questioning at the Japanese Embassy here.

Yasuda said that after their capture the two were moved three times, meeting with armed men he described as Mujahedeen group members. At one place, there were as many as 20 of them, Yasuda said.

``I felt fear whenever they pointed a Kalashnikov with its safety catch released at me,'' Yasuda said.

The two also said they felt they were held not as hostages but as spies who had entered a war zone.

At one point, the armed men told them in English that they would be killed if they were working with the Americans.

``I was saved because I was not carrying a gun,'' Yasuda said. ``Others taken hostage and killed in Iraq seemed to have been carrying firearms.''

The two were heading toward Fallujah when they were stopped by five men who stepped out of a passenger car. They asked Watanabe and Yasuda if they wanted to see a downed U.S. military helicopter.

The pair followed and were captured by an armed group of about 15 men.

On the third day of their captivity, the two were asked by the group if ``the Japanese prime minister would take responsibility if we kill you.''

They replied that ``that would not be likely.''

Watanabe and Yasuda told their captors they had gone to Iraq to report on Iraqi deaths as a result of U.S. military operations.

Both are scheduled to arrive back in Japan today.(IHT/Asahi: April 20,2004) (04/20)

[red5angel]

LOL! Only Kung Lek could turn a thread about the Japanese hostages into a bush thing. Get off it you idiot.


I think Ryu has it correct. Your always going to run into that extremeist type of personality, much like the terrorist they are to obusy with their own beliefs to look much at the greater picture. So they protest what they really don't understand, and try to put a spin on it that makes sense to them. They feel anger, they just can't identify it exactly so they turn it on anyone who is convenient. Much like the hippies in the 60's who took their anger out on the soldier.


It's fortunate that unlike spain, Japan has stuck to its guns.

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by red5angel
It's fortunate that unlike spain, Japan has stuck to its guns.

Unlike Japan, Spain is not dependent on the American military for protection or married to the American economy.