What style of Baguazhang do you do?

[count]

Sure, That's because Yin Fu was thin and Cheng Ting Hua was a robust and heavy set fellow. Of course they look different.

[goldendragon]

Omarthe fish--as I understand it there are indoor disciples and there are lineage holders both are not the same. A lineage holder did learn the hold system and the indoor disciple is just an openly trainind person who is going to be trained without the teacher holding back info. I'm not saying that I'm right or your wrong this is just as I understand it pertaining to my training.

Buddy--"Most Yin Fu practitioners in that city agree that Dr. Xie made up the eight animals. Someone had to, I guess."-I have see pictures of the same postures (Signature animals)in a Kung Fu magazine article about Empiror's (spelling?) longfist a style that combines bagua, taiji, and Xingji that dates back before bagua's creator Dong. So if you think that the Dr. invented the postures or energys (animals) for that matter your incorrect they have been noted elsewhere. He may have come up with the names of animals for the energys(trigrams) but he is only putting new names on old training methods. Personaly I find your comments to be generally an attempt at disscrediting Dr. Xie and insulting to me as a trainer of his Yin style bagua. In fact the only part of any of your comments that even pertained to what I'm asking about was;
"Briefly, Gao style consists of: Basic Trianing, Basic Hand methods, Whole Body Power training, Single Palm Change and its variations, Eight Mother Palms and Black Dragon Waves its Tail. This is the pre-heaven (Xiantian) method. Then there is the Sixty-four application forms and their linking sets, or post-heaven (Houtian) methods. There's a bunch of other stuff as well."--that's good this is what I was looking for, and to think in 23 replys I only got a paragraph of what I'm asking about. Lots of SPAM, so knock it off! All of you.

Count--"I highly recommend you take Buddy's advice, and go out there and do some research."--I'm sorry but I do find this rather insulting I have 5 books on other styles of bagua and have read them all. Not only that, I have looked all over this interweb thing and have found more info on oh say weaving baskets than bagua. I have read alot of the songs and most of them concure with what He Jinbao has tought me. But they do not address my personal flaws as He Jinbao does and the song can't look at your posture and say no, no, do this not that, or think about this not that. Songs to me are like trying to learn kung fu from a book. you really can't unless you have already reached a very high level. They only remind me of things that He Jinbao already said for the most part.

[Buddy]

"I have see pictures of the same postures (Signature animals)in a Kung Fu magazine article about Empiror's (spelling?) longfist a style that combines bagua, taiji, and Xingji that dates back before bagua's creator Dong. "

Drag,
While I knew you take offense, I assure you I meant none. But you can't expect me take your finding a magazine article seriously can you? I worked with your grandteacher, did you? Please look at your statement. How could something exist before its founder?
Long Fist has completely different body mechanics than does the IMA.

"So if you think that the Dr. invented the postures or energys (animals) for that matter your incorrect they have been noted elsewhere."

Well you just said you think they come from Long Fist. Look dude I'm just telling what everyone in Beijing thinks. And here's another shocker for you. Dr. Xie admitted to some that he made up the animals.

"Personaly I find your comments to be generally an attempt at disscrediting Dr. Xie and insulting to me as a trainer of his Yin style bagua."

Why do you think I would want to do that? My comments have been reasoned and well tempered and concurred with by others. Just how long have you been doing this style that you are a 'trainer'? I worked with Dr. Xie on his first visit to the US and it was not very long ago.


"I'm sorry but I do find this rather insulting I have 5 books on other styles of bagua and have read them all."

All the way through? Seriously son. I have practicing baguazhang for 18 years. You've read a couple books? Please don't preach to your betters.

[RICK JAMES]

And that's what five fingers said to the face, right there....

[shawnsegler]

G-Dragon.

As a yin style practitioner myself, I've got to say take a lude, dude.

As to your Dr.Xie worship. There is no #1 under heaven.

Now relax and play well with others who enjoy bagua.

Best wishes,

S

[omarthefish]

Originally posted by goldendragon
Omarthe fish--as I understand it there are indoor disciples and there are lineage holders both are not the same. A lineage holder did learn the hold system and the indoor disciple is just an openly trainind person who is going to be trained without the teacher holding back info. I'm not saying that I'm right or your wrong this is just as I understand it pertaining to my training.

Well we are all free to define out own terms. If you like, I can try to keep in mind what you mean by that distinction. I suppose an "inner door student" and a "lineage holder" are not exactly the same as even in Chinese they are different terms but the difference may be fairly subtle. Last week I mentioned in conversation something referring to the fact that in the past I was instructed explicitly NOT to tell anyone who I was learning from. He said, "Oh....no, no, no. That was before. Now you absolutely can tell people your are (his name)'s "chuan ren" (lineage holder) But I have only learned maybe 1/4 th of the system at best.

AFAIK, you are a lineage holder whenever your teacher says you are.

Still leaving his name off because I feel weird about posting it on a BBS like this.

[kungfu cowboy]

Engleburt Humperdink.

[Brad]

Buddy--"Most Yin Fu practitioners in that city agree that Dr. Xie made up the eight animals. Someone had to, I guess."-I have see pictures of the same postures (Signature animals)in a Kung Fu magazine article about Empiror's (spelling?) longfist a style that combines bagua, taiji, and Xingji that dates back before bagua's creator Dong.

If it's the same article I'm thinking of, it's my understanding that they basically took some xingyi, bagua, & taiji, and call it emporer's longfist because they never learned the real thing. It's kind of a wierd story.

[goldendragon]

BRAD-you could be right about the Emporer's longfist being a load of crap, but then you could also be wrong.I found the postures they had for bagua in the diagram to be correct, though the energy of the main strikes didn't coraspawn (spelling?).

BUDDY-Like I said before I think he may have relabaled the systems with animal names but I think the systems existed before that I'll ask He Jinbao when he comes up (next month I think).
"Seriously son. I have practicing baguazhang for 18 years. You've read a couple books? Please don't preach to your betters."--You don't know your better infact I don't know you've trained for more than a month so quit with your ego "buddy". There is this saying "Don't tell me who your teacher is because if I beat you I'm better and I won't tell you how long I've trained for because if you beat me your better."(I realize you'll all say "you told us who your teacher is!" well I know that and only mentioned his name so you know where what I know came from) It really doesn't matter how long you've trained. We're not going to fight and the only thing you get from training is skill at fighting. It will not increace your intellagence or get rid of that nasty ego either.
As for my books well I've read them several times as well as every article I've found on bagua for the past 5 years. if thats not a way to learn other than training than why would you point me to sights with words on them?

[dwid]

I know I'm late to the party, but...

My style is Guang Hua Mountain Bagua.

From what I was taught by my instructor (Dr. Fred Ming-an Wu), it is mainly a combination of Gao and Han Mu Sha's bagua, with variations on some techniques added by some of their highly skilled students.

[shawnsegler]

intellagence..lol

s

[count]

Classic case of watching the finger and missing the moon. Take the finger out of your eye, Goldendragon. I told you I wasn't meaning to be insulting you. There are contradictions even in your version of the Xie line. People were just trying to point you in the right direction and suggesting you keep an open mind. Everywhere you go, teachers have different ideas of how to cover the same material. There are dozens of good Yin bagua teachers in this country. If you can get past the idea that there is only one way and see the importance of basics, you can begin to make bagua yourself.

[Buddy]

Sigh. You can lead a brick to water but you can't make it float...

"Like I said before I think he may have relabaled the systems with animal names but I think the systems existed before that I'll ask He Jinbao when he comes up (next month I think)."

I know you said it before but you should talk to folks in Beijing. I have and they've talked to the Men family. Look, Dr. Xie was a nice old guy so I really don't want to besmearch his memory but I'm just telling you the truth. If you still like it, fine by me.

"You don't know your better infact I don't know you've trained for more than a month so quit with your ego "buddy"."

Buddy is my name son. You are a beginner, I'm better than you. No brag, just fact. Here's my website www.lungmen.org.
In fact there's a great deal you don't know. But ask the board, there's a number of people who know me here.

"There is this saying "Don't tell me who your teacher is because if I beat you I'm better and I won't tell you how long I've trained for because if you beat me your better."

Is that from a fortune cookie?

"It really doesn't matter how long you've trained.

Of course it does.

"We're not going to fight and the only thing you get from training is skill at fighting."

But you don't know anything about me, son. Training is also a great way to meet chicks.

"It will not increace your intellagence or get rid of that nasty ego either."

I'm sorry I've burst your hero-worship bubble. I tell you the truth and you slag me. I don't expect you to believe me but try to find out for yourself. Go to Empty Flower, go to Jarek's site, Dragonslist, ask around. But you won't because you're afraid I might be right.

"As for my books well I've read them several times as well as every article I've found on bagua for the past 5 years. if thats not a way to learn other than training than why would you point me to sights with words on them?"

That's not a way to learn, I thought that was clear. I've read all those books as well. I've told you where to go. Go to other boards and ask questions. Like I said if you like what you do, great. It's just not orthodox Yin Fu style. Don't blame me.

[Buddy]

dwid,
Yizong is from Zhang Zhunfeng who was great friends with and was greatly influenced by Wu Menngxia who, as you probably know studied with both Han and Gao. Do you guys do Tian Gan (heavenly stems)?
Buddy

[Brad]

BRAD-you could be right about the Emporer's longfist being a load of crap, but then you could also be wrong.I found the postures they had for bagua in the diagram to be correct, though the energy of the main strikes didn't coraspawn (spelling?).

I'm not saying Emporer's Longfist is a load of crap, just that what they practice is not emporer's longfist. They DID learn Bagua, Xingyi, and Taiji + some Chin Woo stuff. Emporer's longfist is a real system, but they don't practice it... that's what I'm saying. I have some info about them, but Royal Dragon would be the one to talk to about specifics. Though I did double check some things he told me.