high front kick vs roundhouse

[Mr Punch]

Few points in no order, and not arguing with anyone.

Seen a few very good front kickers paid off in shooto, including someone who put Ryan Bow down with a front kick to the chin, and he's no slouch, just opened his guard for a second, tired, in the second round and BAM. Got up again, and fought to the third with bambi legs...

Also seen them work very well as fenders off, winders and wearers down to the gut and the chest in all NHB formats and that's how I was taught them in karate.

In karate, we were taught a nice front kick that involved a push through: you chamber, and give just enough notice before you kick hard a wee way away from the chest causing them to put up their guard... which takes the full THWACK of what you've turned into a snap kick (with the top of the foot), before using the bridge that their hands afford to drive a penetrating push kick through into the solar plexus with the ball of your foot. Of course timing is important: too slow and they'll sweep/throw you while your chambered, too fast and you have to change it into an upwards driving heel kick which hurts you if they back off, and leaves you vulnerable anyway.

In wingchun, I've used a similar concept but without the chamber (which makes the timing even harder), which can be used as above or lower as a crushing downward stamp to the guts/nuts or the takedown point above the hip.

In wingchun I like to use all front kicks and round kicks from neutral (harder) or back-weighted (easier but more telegraphed) stances, but not usually above the groin.

My favourite is when getting pulled sharply from my right to my left: plant you left leg wide, and fold a round kick over into their nearest knee, then bounce through it with a front kick to their other knee, which has the beautiful joint effect of stabilizing yourself and regaining the inside.

Just a couple of thoughts: really I think they are both essential parts of your arsenal.

Seven Star: is the teep a front kick?

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by Mat

Also seen them work very well as fenders off, winders and wearers down to the gut and the chest in all NHB formats and that's how I was taught them in karate.


Seven Star: is the teep a front kick?

what you just described is the use of a teep, basically - it's a front push kick.Used for what you stated, and also probing distance and stopping kicks.

[red5angel]

a roundhouse doesn't need to be chambered.

I didn't go into detail but since 7* demands it!

A good effective roundhouse needs to be chambered. Muy Thai roundhouses are mediocre in my view for damage potential in my opinion but they don't have to be chambered. To get some real power behind it, it needs to be chambered, and that's a tell.

As for setting it up, I don't consider set up the best way to go about things unless you absolutely have your opponent on the run.

I don't like roundhouses in general because they, like most things require a setup or a chamber to be highly effective ( I don't consider pounding away at someones thigh, effective for self defense, although it works in sport) and if I'm going to kick it's going to be for full maximum damage potential.

This is all of course in the context of "high". A good low roundhouse can make a good sweep, but again has similar limitations in my mind as above.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by red5angel

A good effective roundhouse needs to be chambered. Muy Thai roundhouses are mediocre in my view for damage potential in my opinion but they don't have to be chambered. To get some real power behind it, it needs to be chambered, and that's a tell.

If I hit you in the knee with a whip, and in the other with a baseball bat, the whip will do more damage? Doubtful.



As for setting it up, I don't consider set up the best way to go about things unless you absolutely have your opponent on the run.

unless you are just swinging aimlessly, everything is set up, unless your opponent blindly walks into your attack, in which case you don't have to set up a roundhouse either.

I don't like roundhouses in general because they, like most things require a setup or a chamber to be highly effective ( I don't consider pounding away at someones thigh, effective for self defense, although it works in sport) and if I'm going to kick it's going to be for full maximum damage potential.

so tell me where you're going to kick. A fron kick to the midsection isn't too terribly damamging. However, I've broken someone's ribs with a roundhouse to the midsection. People think a roundhouse to the side of the knee won't damage it, but I am sporting a strained meniscus that will verify otherwise. I've heard of deaths from a roundhouse to the neck - I'll try to find something to verify that.

This is all of course in the context of "high". A good low roundhouse can make a good sweep, but again has similar limitations in my mind as above.

In the context of "high", I really don't use any kicks. The few times that I do, it's side, hook or round.

I don't think the roundhouse makes a good sweep, unless you are doing something like a cut kick, where one of your opponent's legs is already off of the ground.

[BlueTravesty]

the roundhouse I'm learning in My Jhong Law Horn starts out almost like a front kick, with a sharp twist of the hips as the leg comes out (as opposed to coming around the side). Is this the same as the "chambered" kick?

[FatherDog]

Originally posted by red5angel

A good effective roundhouse needs to be chambered. Muy Thai roundhouses are mediocre in my view for damage potential in my opinion but they don't have to be chambered. To get some real power behind it, it needs to be chambered, and that's a tell.

*sigh*

['MegaPoint]

I saw Michael McDonald (in a K-1 bout) kick a dude in the neck with his toes using a high front kick. I don't know if that was an intentional thing, but homeboy grabbed his neck, began to lean on the ropes, then walked away waving McDonald off. The ref stopped it and McDonald won by TKO.

A whip is insubstantial in the mass department Sev'. A better analogy would be a metal bar swung like a basebal bat through an object vs. a metal bar whipped out at the target at a high velocity, contacting the target, transferring its force, and returning so as to not reabsorb too much of that tranferred force. The damage would be significant in either instance, but the whipping motion teaches one not to overextend or push. That is an inefficient use of power. Balance is also an issue, as is protecting your back. Thai boxers tend to spin 360 from the force of their follow through when executing a "thrusting" roundhouse (gyaku-mawashi geri kekomi?). You can get penetrating force by using speed to compensate for the pushing force of a baseball bat thai kick.

Using shoe tips/toe tips also changes the focus of the traditional mawashi geri (roundhouse). Conversely, front kicks with the toe tips to the floating ribs, kidneys, liver, solar plexus, groin, perineum ("taint") and leg targets are devious. It just takes some practice and toe strengthening. Especially good for disbalancing and entering before a takedown.

I think that the roundhouse and front kick are very natural kicks. Both are good for sparring and self-defense if you know how and when to use them. I'm a big exponent of hand techs for street confrontations. Positioning, movement and hand strikes are also good for the ring. I love to use the front kick to check a kick or kick a kick. Especially against chambered sidekicks or circular kicks since it is a linear and quick technique. A good front kick to the solar plexus or inguinal crease will keep an overly enthusiastic opponent from charging straight in. Especially if you take advantage of this unbalanced state and immediately clock them with a good straight punch or two to the nose.

I teach adults and kids. 9 times out of 10, the kick of choice for sparring seems to be the roundhouse. It's not the easiest kick to do ( the front kick is even easier), but it does seem to be a more natural kicking motion for many. It becomes a technique that loses its effectiveness in kumite above the belt. If you do this kind of sparring, varying your techs and combos will make you hard to beat. In general I like using lateral and circular movement in conjunction with mostly linear striking (hand) techs. I said mostly .

As a full contact or kickboxing tech, the front kick is often neglected. Like a haymaker punch, the hooking motions seem to have more KO force due to the clubbing nature of such actions. Understand that linear action combined with an increased velocity is a different type of force, that can be quite effective if used appropriately. Right crosses to the point of the chin are just as devastating as good hook punches to the jaw.

Chambering any kick with a knee-up chamber is for beginners. You can whip your kicks up from the ground by keeping your lower leg loose at the knee like a ball and chain, so that the desired compounded velocity is achieved. It will look almost like you're kicking your own but t. This combined with loose, controlled and fast hip torque, will give you a stronger roundhouse than the garden variety kung fu, TKD or karate roundhouse. Oh and watch that antagonistic rear arm swing behind your body stuff. That is sloppy and amateurish technique. Protect yourself with your arms in front, not behind you! Train your balance, always. I'm telling you guys too many secrets, hahaha.

As for high front kicks, I'll say this, once you go above chest level the muscular effort and the pull that gravity puts on your kicking leg negates a lot of its power, as does the increased power transferral distance that is created (from your base to your kicking foot or shin). Increased velocity has to compensate for this. Don't forget balance is more compromised with the higher kicks (duh). They do have their utility for sure though.

Enuff! Whew!

[Ikken Hisatsu]

Originally posted by red5angel
Muy Thai roundhouses are mediocre in my view for damage potential in my opinion but they don't have to be chambered. To get some real power behind it, it needs to be chambered

what the F*CK have you been smoking? heres an idea- go create a fighting tournament that allows all styles and a few rules so that fighters dont go home on stretchers. observe what kind of kicks are used effectively, and what kind of kicks suck. you can then proceed to shut your ignorant mouth. this is the kind of retarded spew that gives people who study CMA a bad name. die, cumclown.