dose it cost money to become a diseple of a monk

[joehaz100]

ok well i am going to a small school in dengfeng china and my sifu is an ex monk his uncle is Shi De Qian. and i asked his wife if i became his diseple what would happen and hoew would i andshe told me that when he saw that my kung fu was relly good he would ask me if i wanted to be his diseple and then we would go to the shaolin temple and we would have the cearamony and but it would cost like $400 USD and do you think it should cost that much for the cearmony and also should it even cost money to become a diseple? can any one telll me thanks

[Pk_StyLeZ]

i will charge u 200
and u can be my disciple
=) =)

[joedoe]

I think traditionally you make a donation to your sifu when you become a disciple. As to the amount, that is up to your sifu.

[drunkmunky]

hmmmm. 200 to be ur disciple?

[GeneChing]

To become a disciple in Chinese culture, you are essentially adopting a father. This is how it is with a monk or any master, kung fu, calligraphy, music, you name it. The relationship of parent and child is very sacred in China - the notion of filial piety is a cornerstone to everythign Chinese. If you're not clear on this, you should study Confucius. This means that you have to give as much as you can to the relationship. It's not jsut about paying some dough and adding "disciple of so-and-so" on your business card.

I tell you, the monks are victimized by this more than any other I've seen. In general, they are very open to non-Chinese disciples becuase they see it as a way to bind students to spread the dharma. Unfortunately they often don't realize that most non-Chinese are not up on their Confucianism and after they "pay off" their monk, they never return. It's sad. One of my own disciple brothers snubbed our master when he came to our area recently. I find that simply disgusting. Our master had come all the way from China, and he could find the time to even show up. So many people want to become disciples of monks, but they don't distinguish between teachers. That's akin to saying "I want to marry a Chinese" but not distinguishing who. So think it thorugh. It's a lifetime commitment. There is no divorce in discipleship without dishonor.

[joehaz100]

see Geme that is what i was thought. but i was just making sure that it was not some scam just to get money from people but if i did become a diseple i would like to cansider him is a father and his family as my family so i was just making shure. thanks for the in fo also did you have to pay shi de ching when you became his diseple? and when? and how did you became his diseple? also i will be going to see Doc in vages soon

[GeneChing]

That's in any disciple ceremony, shaolin or not. It's also custom to give hong bao (money in red envelops) to your teacher, whether or not you're a disciple. Masters got to eat too.

[richard sloan]

but they also provide for you. the gift of money is sort of like a dowry- your master, like Gene mentioned, is a new father to you, and you a son. Shaolin puts a unique twist to the confucian gong fu discipleship ceremony by blending in the Buddhism- the ceremony is the Gui Yi Fo, Fa, Sen...basically taking refuge, as SYM calls it, in the three things that are priceless. Buddha, Dharma, Singha.

You will see that your master will often feed you for example, he'll help you if you need it...so the money is like a sort of defrayment of future costs he will assume.

All monks are different. I have heard of some asking or suggesting different denominations of bills or combinations of numerology are also big...it depends...

Don't put the cart before the horse. You may not even get along with this master...in my meager opinion this conversation was slightly premature.

[GeneChing]

Singha like the Thai beer? Sorry, couldn't resist that. One of my Shaolin brothers has a Singha beer label tattoo.

Discipleship is a lot like marraige. You take a vow to support each other in light of a higher cause. In marriage, it's about love. In discipleship, it's about the art.

[freedom76]

I've seen this relationtional concept twisted quite a bit in the U.S. . So many schools expect you to give so much to them, or the owner/teacher, but they give you very little in return. Yes, you get movement lessons, but no sense of loyalty or family. As long as the lesson fees keep coming in your welcome, but if not things can turn ugly fast. I used to be a secondary instructor (xiao shifu) at a couple schools in the States and I'd hear so much talk about loyalty to your school and each other in class from the head shifu, but in the office behind closed doors, it'd be how much can we milk them for? I've evcountered this twice in two different states. Needless to say I left both times. Loyalty without integrity is worthless. I've checked out schools from time to time looking for a good teacher and environment, but I've had trouble finding something that seems honest. Perhaps if this discipleship-type relationship spread more and was taken seriously by BOTH sides, martial arts schools wouldn't have a negative reputation like so many have these days. Sometimes its just sad, but the realtionship you've all been talking about sounds beautiful and you are fortunate to find something like that.

[GeneChing]

There's corruption where ever there is power. It may be more pronounced in the US, since the cultural ramifications of something like discipleship isn't as well established (case and point, this thread) so it's easier to take advantage.

Sooooo, just like it's important to choose the right spouse in marraige, it's important to choose the right shifu in discipleship. Keep in mind that in China, there is still arranged marraige and arranged discipleship. That's a pretty alien concept here in the US, where we've been raised on independance, liberty and freedom, freedom76. Freedom is only good if you make the right choices. The dark side of freedom is that you're free to fail miserably and suffer the consequences. As in marriage, if either of the engaged is thinking about the money, that's probably not a good sign.