Being a Wing Chun Sifu Sucks!!!!!

[Highlander]

Is it really worth it? The money isn't that good. The dedication it requires is extreme. The appreciation is little at best.

In the thread "Pay your fee get your B" Wingchunner talks about the life long relationship between a Sifu and a student, but that's not the way it really is. It has been my observation that a Sifu is lucky to have 2% of there students last 3 years. We have students that are constantly at Sifu's house. They have dinner. They have parties. Then suddenly they are gone. Not a phone call, not a word. This must tear up a Sifu to constantly dedicate himself to his students only to be discarded with little or no consideration.

Sorry for the vent, but we have a small part-time school in my Sifu's garage. Classes are three times a week. I attend twice a week because it is 60 miles from my house (1.5 hours drive each way). Two months ago we had 16 students. I was actually envious because they were always at Sifu's house getting extra instruction and developing a relationship. Then the weather got nice and last class there was three of us. Before that there was only two. And I know there have been times on the nights that I can't make it that there haven't been any. Add that to always having to prove yourself to perspective students, always having to defend your style, and what's the point. And it's not like this is a one time incident. It's like it's a cycle, build and drop, build and drop.

Anyway, tomorrow night is our annual Oriental Feast at Sifu's house. I hope some people show up. Is it unreasonable to expect people to show their appreciation by showing up, eating his food, and drinking his beer.

Anyway, sorry for the vent, but it tears me up watching this and I really don't know why anyone would willingly subject themself to this over and over again. :confused:

[old jong]

I teach very privately and used to have only three students.All of these are also tkd guys! I taught them all I got and for a symbolic price(20$ a month for 1 or 2 lessons a week!) for at least three years.They where also my training partners as my sifu is living at two hours from my place and I see him only once a month.Well two of them left me with no thanks probably thinking that they where now good enough!No news whatsoever!...This makes me think about all that teaching business.Is a friendly relation possible when teaching?...I know now that I won't give my wing chun to anybody for a "friendly price" ever

C'est la vie!

[Subitai]

Heh, what you said rings so true. In hindsite, I can see how things have changed for my own SIFU over his many long years of teaching. It makes me wonder if I still want to do this...just a little.

You are so correct, only like 1 person in 1000 has the stuff to stick it out with a style. Let alone with a sifu for 3 or more years. (Mabe worse of a figure)

I think it's partly the western culture to blame. Fast, materialistic, pleasure now and never go for wanting type of deal. I get sick to my stomach when I see some fat kid, disrespecting his momma because he can't have the toy or ice cream he wants. His chubby fingers and fat rolls collected nicely on his body. No doubt from countless hours on a Playstation, sitting indian style with a glass of chocolate milk.

Later in life, what kind of student could he possibly be to a good and sincere Sifu.

Americans in general are just plain spoiled by the standard of living and need to travel abroad more to get a firm grip on priorities and thier definition of wealth.

A little more parental discipline would make better students too.

"Go take a time-out" my A$$!!!!!!!

"O"

[John D]

It is a sad and an odd reality in teaching WC that few stay. Teaching WC is perhaps the most difficult art to teach, taking two to three times the amount time to touch every student's hand at every practice. Many if not all burn out and need to rest for a year or two.

In my nearly three decades of WC experience, I would estimate that only one in five will last a year, only one in twenty will finish the open hand curriculum (for me three years, only one in 30 will learn the 6.5 point staff, and finally only one in a 100 will be taught all the sections of the DO.

You teach for the hobby (interest) and the friendships. Pick your students and associates carefully. No matter how much you charge, the time given to teaching can never be retreived if the student quits. My teacher made me wait nearly five months before he starting teaching me. I have no regrets teaching, but I do regret finding so few that have the heart to stay and learn beyond the foundational curriculum and become self-actualized and formless.

Teaching is not for everybody and not everybody can be taught. Feel fortunate if you can pass the WC art on to a few good people in your lifetime.

Respectfully yours,
John DiVirgilio
Hawaii Wing Chun Gung-Fu Assoc.

[TzuChan]

I'm but a beginner, and in Brussels Wing Chun seems to be really rare. I have found but 1 sifu, and it is a 1 hour drive with the car to get there. I am going to start there this summer if I may enter, but the thing is in Belgium that people (as myself sometimes) want to be able to do sh*t in no time. I mean we want to be able to take out twenty guys after 6 months of training :) It sounds weird but it's the truth ! I practiced karate and made that mistake, I started training for 5 months but those **** kata's made me sick (fighting vs invisible opponent) I didn't see the use of it, so I quitted, never said thanks to the teacher .. nothing.. But after a year passed I realised the mistake I made, but the teacher didn't really mind me leaving since he had like 30 students.

Back to the WC, as I said I want to get started and am willing to practice for years with my future sifu, and I can't wait to go to those WC camps during summer. The thing you guys say about 1 in 100 finishes the stuff till the end is like this (in my country at least) :

-You start WC and you start with drills and stuff, afer a couple of months you see you still can't do what the dude can do in the movies, so you quit ! :)

Sad but true. I understand this can be frustrating to many Sifu's. But to all you teachers out there I tell you this, before you let some-one be your student talk to him about what is going to be taught, what'll be the results after say a year etc... And don't take classes from 30 stdents if you're on your own, cause students just wont feel "needed" and will be less motivated.

Ow and something else a teacher (from the real school, I mean the school were they teach you maths, languages etc... :)) If students don't say "Thank you" all the time doesn't mean they don't appreciate what you are doing .

Hope I said something good here :)

You practice Wing Chun ? COntact me on my icq ! 71470721(my name there is "vision")

[Sihing73]

Hello All,

Teaching Wing Chun, or any art can be both a rewarding and a frustrating experience. But it all depends on your motivation and reason for teaching.

Are you teaching in order to pass on the art?
Is it because you enjoy the interaction?
Is it to provide yourself with opportunities to train and get better?
Is it for the money?
Is it for the fame and prestige?

If you teach for EXTERNAL objectives then you are always in danger of falling short and being dissappointed. If however, you decide to teach for INTERNAL reasons, you enjoy it etc, then you can be satisifed regardless of the students reaction. Some will argue this point but if you are secure in yourself you create your own happiness to an extent. You may still be dissapointed but you will be able to deal with such dissapointment more favorably.

I used to teach and have had the same experieinces as others, Some students did not want to pay, some did not want to practice, some did not want to explore the art but have everything handed to them. I chose to stop teaching because I feel I have much more to learn before I am truly qualified to teach anyone else. This plus the fact that my family takes a higher place in my order or priorities.

Now when I visit other Wing Chun schools I sometimes regret my decision to no longer teach as I see some of what is offered. It is an unfortunate fact that most people will not dedicate the time and effort to learn Wing Chun in a traditional manner. Most people want the easy way, the quick fix. If they don't get what they want at one school they will quickly move on to another where they can. There is no loyalty anymore it is not longer the Sifu who is important it is the student.

For those who teach: When and if you find that one student who is willing to dedicate himself to the art then give him everything and insure the passage of the system to the next generation. History will show that although Wing Chun has had many students only a few from each generatino stand out. There is a reason for this.

In any event good luck and I wish everyone the best.

Peace,

Dave

[greedy]

Unfortunately the teaching game, whether it involves the martial arts, english, history or cookery, is almost always a thankless task task. Huge numbers of hours go into preparation, teaching, evaluating and fine-tuning taching strategies to get the best out of the students, no matter what their ability level.

To teach, you have got to realise that some people approach learning as a commodity. You are, theoretically, be paid for a 'service', and why should you deserve thanks?

I know it is a fantastic feeling to look around you and see people learning something new. The look on their faces when they finally get a technique to work for them. Although it is nice and heart-warming to recieve a pat on the back from time to time, it is the process of teaching and learning that you should enjoy, not just the kudos you recieve from the student.

Your success as a teacher is not always judged by the length of time a person spends in the kwoon, or whether they have fully completed a particular form or not. Unfortunately things happen in life, and sometimes people reprioritise. Instead of cursing these students that 'abondon' you, ask yourself:

'Is this student leaving the kwoon as a better person,either martially, mentally or spiritually, than when they enterred?'

I think that you will find that on the vast majority of occasions, the answer to this question will be yes. That is why we teach, and that is what makes us good teachers.

Cheers,

greed

[doug maverick]

people who drope out have know idea what true gung fu is about they think that(and thanks impart to "gung fu" flicks such as crouching tiger hidden dragon)they could recieve some kind of special technique that will make them fly in the air and make any enemy stand still. then they go to the class and see that gung fu means hard work or mastery of a perticular craft, thats when they see:"**** i actually gotta work out in this place" then they try to stick it out till the end of the month and leave i seen it happen alot in my gung fu school where after a class a sweaty tryout student would say i love this school cause the class was kinda weak then they come to a real class and they get a taste of the real stuff. this is why the intro class is harder now because he doesn't want any bull crap he only wants die hard trainers.

[Armin]

Hi guys!

I just came back from holidays (I spent two weeks in Djerba, Tunisisa) and there's a big deal happening!

As I get it, it's not a problem of Wing Chun, that nearly all students leave after two or three years. I think the first time I heard it from a Karate-master (Kono or Suzuki) that only 1 out of 1000 has the will and the devotion to train on and get a master.

Wing Chun just faces the same problems as Karate, Judo, TKD and any other MA had: when you are "trendy" you get a lot of students, because it's fashion. It's the job of the teacher to pick the students he thinks that are worth teaching. You have to see it like this: The first four or five years the student shows his will to carry on and afterwards he receives "true" instructions.

On the other hand, it's not a problem at all. Think of all the schools/teachers that live from these students. It's like these students make it possible to find the real student, not only by their mass (needing 1000 students to find 1 real student), but they pay the teacher for his search.


Armin.

[Spark]

The money isn't that good???!!!?!?!

Why does that matter!??!! :confused:

Maybe you should rethink why you took wc

;)

[passing_through]

When you teach you have to look at it from your point of view as a teacher as well as your students point of view.

In the US, there is a certain mindset to learning. Most people do martial arts for fun/hobby rather than as a driving force in their life. Approacing marital arts training as a hobby that costs next to nothing makes it very easy to quit.

With that said, what do you want to accomplish as a teacher? Should you spend you life looking for the one person for you to take to the completion of the system or help as many as you can as far as they will allow you to teach them? OR, do both (they are not mutually exclusive).

Does every college student go to school for a PhD? If you're teaching and you expect a student to reach for that level, you're setting yourself up for failure. Your studnet might only need or want a bachelor's degree of information or maybe just an associates.

Additionally, teaching as a sideline or hobby might have worked to a greater extent in the past. People today expect to see a certain level of professionalism and commitment. If you have too personal a relationship too early, a student could see the relationship as buddies/equals rather than teacher/student(father/son).

If you figure your dropout rate is about 3 years, why not tailor your teaching to give the most information you can to help someone understand the purpose and benefit of martial arts practice? That way if they leave, at least they're educated as to what martial arts is all about. Also, if they see the benefit, maybe they'll stay.

There's a thought in Chan along the lines that you can't teach anyone anything. You can only guide them to experiences to learn for themselves. Perhaps the students that leave have learned what they needed to learn and must move on. That has nothing to do with the teacher - or what is taught. Some people identify with Wing Chun, some identify with Underwater basket weaving. To each his own. *shrug* too bad for them ;)

Jeremy R.

... opportunityisnowhere...
... was that no where...
...............or now here...

[Highlander]

Thanks for all the replies, it really has helped.

And thanks to all the Sifu's out there. We talk alot about this sifu and that sifu, and how much is required to study Kung Fu. But there are a lot very good Sifu's out there and what we have to do pales in comparison to what they have put into the art and the sacrifices they have made. I just hope the rewards are as great.

To all the Sifu's out there: "You have my thanks and respect". :)

[Sharky]

I quit wing chun cos of financial circumstances, and my family banned me from going, so i could spend more time studying. Please don't think that every student that quit did it cos they were lazy.

Edd

[Vyvial]

I bet you remember this one!

[yuanfen]

Why are you bringing back old and currently irelevant posts?