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Thread: More proof that HIV does not cause AIDS (long)

  1. #1
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    More proof that HIV does not cause AIDS (long)

    This should start some good arguments.
    I personally am indifferent about this, so don't even bother trying to start an arguement with me

    MEDICAL DOCTOR PUTS HIS LIFE ON THE LINE
    TO PROVE THE HIV VIRUS DOES NOT CAUSE AIDS

    The Spotlight, September 12, 1994:

    If you or someone you know has tested positive for the HIV virus, there is now good news.

    The chances you will get sick or die from AIDS are no greater than if the test came out negative.

    The London Times reports a major research group has recently proven the test for the HIV
    virus (which is claimed to cause AIDS) is completely invalid and "riddled with false positives".

    Malnutrition, multiple infections, malaria, multiple sclerosis, tuberculosis, having once had the
    "flu" or measles and even the body's own natural response to anal semen all result in positive
    HIV/AIDS tests. {1}.

    Now the truth is finally revealed. When a completely normal and healthy person tests positive
    for HIV, is then put on the deadly drug AZT {2} -- they die. Death results from the destruction
    of the immune system caused by the deadly drug AZT and not by HIV.

    I interviewed Dr. Robert E. Willner, a medical doctor who has practiced and lectured on
    medicine worldwide for over 35 years. He recently stunned Spain by innoculating himself with
    the blood of Pedro Tocino, an HIV positive hemophiliac. {3}. Dr. Willner is the author of the
    just published blockbuster book Deadly Deception: The Proof That Sex And HIV Absolutely
    Do Not Cause AIDS.

    Caption from an accompanying photograph:

    Author of Deadly Deception: The Proof That Sex And HIV Absolutely Do Not Cause
    AIDS, Dr. Robert E. Willner stuns Spain by innoculating himself with the blood of
    Pedro Tocino, an HIV positive hemophiliac. This demonstration to prove the HIV virus
    does not cause AIDS and is in fact harmless was reported on the front page of every
    major newspaper in Spain. His appearance on Spain's most popular television show
    evoked a 4 to 1 response by the viewing audience in favor of his position against the
    "AIDS Hypothesis", yet this historic event was never mentioned in the U.S. press... Why?

    Q: Dr. Willner, you say in your book AIDS is the greatest fraud in medical history. {4}. That the
    perpetrators of this crime are raking in billions while innocent people are being murdered with
    the deadly drug AZT. Is AIDS a scam?

    A: No, people are indeed dying of Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndrome or AIDS. The
    scam is that AIDS is not caused by HIV and AIDS is not transmitted sexually or by any other
    means.

    The real causes of AIDS have been known for centuries and have been listed in medical
    textbooks for over 60 years. We have all been lied to and sold a bill of goods by a handful of
    unscrupulous, immoral scientists that care more for money and power than they do for the
    truth or human life itself.

    Most of the medically supervised AIDS deaths were either caused or contributed to by the
    deadly drug AZT. In many cases it was given to perfectly normal and healthy individuals who
    were terrorized by fear from the AIDS media blitz [CN -- or "blitzkrieg" perhaps?] into taking
    the phony HIV test. When a percentage got positive test results they were then given lethal
    doses of AZT, a drug that was shelved over 20 years ago because it was found to be too
    toxic to give to terminally ill cancer patients.

    Q: We have been told all along that all AIDS patients had the HIV virus and that is what
    causes AIDS.

    A: That is an absolute lie! The HIV/AIDS hypothesis was based on the fact that only 40%
    of AIDS cases were confirmed by the Centers for Disease Control to have antibodies to
    HIV and not the virus itself. In New York and San Francisco only 7% of AIDS victims
    were HIV positive. This means that 60 to 93% of all AIDS patients that were used to create
    the AIDS hypothesis were HIV negative.

    The entire AIDS hypothesis is based upon a total lie. We were all lied to when we were led
    to believe that 100% of AIDS victims were HIV positive.

    Q: But how could this happen?

    A: To answer that question we must examine just exactly who created this great lie. It
    was none other than Dr. Robert Gallo, who was investigated and found guilty of "scientific
    misconduct". The very same Dr. Robert Gallo who just a few years prior to AIDS
    discovered what he called the HTLV virus. He claimed that HTLV caused human
    leukemia but failed to gain scientific acceptance because he could not prove it.

    Gallo likewise claimed that HTLV was sexually transmitted and had a latent period of 40
    years.

    That theory was rejected and failed to gain Dr. Gallo acceptance into the National
    Academy of Sciences. His theories on AIDS are just as fallacious and one cannot help
    but see the similarities in the scenario.

    However, this time instead of trying to prove his insane theories about AIDS to his peers,
    without scientific proof, he by-passed them and went public.

    Then, with the help of Margaret Heckler, former head of Health and Human Services,
    who was under great political pressure to come up with an answer to AIDS, the
    infamous world press announcement of the discovery of the so-called AIDS virus
    came about.

    This great fraud is now responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of individuals
    world-wide. It was no accident that Gallo just happened to patent the test for HIV the
    day after the announcement to the world was made. It likewise is no accident that Gallo
    is now a multimillionaire because of the AIDS fraud and his fraudulent AIDS test.

    Q: Are you saying that Dr. Gallo created AIDS?

    A: In a manner of speaking, yes he did. By taking a number of diseases that were killing
    a select group of individuals and claiming that they all had one thing in common -- the
    innocent retrovirus he now called HIV which he also claimed was sexually transmitted.

    The truth is that these individuals were indeed dying of a variety of diseases and they
    all did have one thing in common, but it had nothing to do with their sexual preference
    or with Gallo's harmless so-called "mysterious" HIV retrovirus.

    They were all dying from specific causes that I go into great detail explaining in my
    book. {5}. The information is completely documented and based on cold, hard
    scientific facts -- not on the phony unproven guesswork or the fraud-laced hypothesis
    that is the very foundation of Gallo's ridiculous AIDS theory.

    Q: But Dr. Gallo showed us pictures of the HIV virus attacking T- cells.

    A: The photographs Gallo purported to be HIV "invading" a cell, were actually photos
    of phagocytosis, which is exactly the opposite (the process by which the cell engulfs the
    virus). Whenever the virus is found it is never doing anything and is never harming the
    cell in any way.

    Gallo also reported that AIDS originated in Haiti, in spite of the fact that HIV
    antibodies were discovered in frozen blood samples in the United States more than
    50 years ago. Where was the "epidemic" then?

    Q: How do you answer proponents of the HIV/AIDS connection when they argue
    that "everyone knows that HIV causes AIDS"?

    A: Once "everyone knew" the earth was flat and the sun revolved around it. It has been
    more than 12 years since the so-called "discovery" of AIDS. Yet, there is still not one
    single reference paper that exists in the world that proves HIV causes AIDS. In other
    words, no experimental proof whatsoever has been offered to establish that this harmless
    retrovirus, which cannot even be found in 50 percent of the individuals with AIDS, has
    anything to do with it.

    Q: Isn't is true that any disease capable of destroying the human body is always found
    in vast numbers in the infected person?

    A: Yes, of course. Yet, even the highly sensitive polymerase chain reaction (PCR)
    invented by Dr. Kary Mullis, Nobel Prize Laureate, which literally makes it impossible
    for viruses to hide, can't find Gallo's HIV virus in sufficient quantities to give someone
    the flu let alone kill them.

    HIV is rarely found in T-cells (1 virus per 10,000 to 1,000,000 cells) and when it is
    found it is doing absolutely nothing. In cases of full blown AIDS, even in those just
    hours from death, the virus is extremely difficult to find; and in 50 percent of the cases
    it cannot be found at all. Whenever it is found, even in active cases of AIDS, HIV is
    inactive, not reproducing and it is certainly not killing T-cells as Gallo claims.

    Q: Then what exactly is HIV?

    A: HIV is simply a piece of dead tissue not unlike numerous other retroviruses that
    exist in our body at any given time. It is one thousandth the size of a regular cell, is
    harmless and is simply incapable of doing anything that Gallo claims of it.

    Retroviruses can't even reproduce themselves. They need a host cell to reproduce
    them. If the retrovirus kills the host cell, as Gallo claims HIV does, then the virus has
    immediately committed suicide -- any possible epidemic is over before it began.

    T-lymphocytes (our white blood defensive cells) {6} reproduce 500 times faster
    than the HIV virus is supposedly reproduced. This simply means that even if the
    HIV/AIDS hypothesis were correct it is impossible for HIV to ever win the battle.
    It's like saying you are going to conquer China by giving a noncontagious flu to 3
    soldiers a day while their army increases by 1,500 troops daily. Retroviruses such
    as HIV have been thought to cause many diseases in the past, but extensive, honest
    research has proven them basically harmless.

    Q: Does Dr. Mullis share your contention about HIV and AIDS?

    A: Yes he does. Dr. Mullis says: "Scientists don't believe, they have evidence...
    There is no such body of knowledge" (with reference to HIV as the cause of AIDS).
    Last edited by inic; 05-21-2004 at 11:02 AM.

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    Dr. Peter Duesberg, Professor of Molecular Biology, University of California,
    Berkeley, and member of the National Academy of Sciences, puts it even more
    distinctly. He writes, "HIV does not cause AIDS... The point that everyone is
    missing is that all of those original papers Gallo wrote on HIV have been
    fraudulent... The HIV hypothesis was based on those papers."

    Q: Are there others who also support your position?

    A: Nearly 500 of the world's top scientists are now challenging Gallo's hypothesis
    that HIV causes AIDS and the list is growing daily. Every statistic, every valid
    scientific observation and even the test of time now proves Gallo wrong. It was
    only a matter of time until thinking scientists raised their heads out of the sand, saw
    the truth and started questioning the lies that simply did not stand up to the scrutiny
    of impartial scientific reasoning and experimentation.

    [CN -- The following is emphasized in the original.]

    Project AIDS International [PAI] charges that "the dogmatic AIDS
    hypothesis based on the findings of a person convicted of science fraud,
    is directly or indirectly responsible for the premature deaths of hundreds
    of thousands of people worldwide." PAI further goes on to say: "If action
    is not taken immediately against those who are directly or indirectly
    responsible for these crimes against humanity through the practice of profit
    over life, the drug induced AIDS deaths will most certainly reach
    proportions unparalleled by any natural catastrophe in human history."

    Q: What about Dr. Gallo's contention that HIV is a slow "mysterious" and
    "intelligent" virus.

    A: Dr. Duesberg, renowned as one of, if not the world's foremost retrovirologist,
    answers that question by saying that [CN -- emphasis in original]:

    "Slow" or "lente" viruses do not exist! It is another hypothetical invention
    designed to explain what is obviously nonsense. It has no basis in fact, no
    precedent in science, and is contradictory to 20 years of research
    findings.{7}. Retroviruses can only be replicated by the host cell, and are
    dependent on the life-cycle of that cell. Therefore, the virus must replicate
    within hours or days in order to survive. For over 20 years, an exhaustive
    investigation of retroviruses reveals that there is no such thing as a "slow"
    virus.

    There is nothing biochemically or genetically different about HIV that would give
    it the power to act any differently than any other retrovirus. As Dr. Duesberg so
    aptly puts it, "There are no slow viruses, only slow virologists."

    Q: Did you always know HIV was not the true cause of AIDS?

    A: No. I have to admit that in the beginning I too believed Gallo's big lie. But
    the more I learned about retroviruses the more the AIDS hypothesis didn't
    make sense.

    Q: But how could so many honest scientists be so easily fooled?

    A: Again Dr. Duesberg answers that question best by writing: "After a
    frustrating 20-year long search for a human cancer virus, the club (the
    retrovirologists) was craving for some clinical relevance for the retrovirus
    and hence, happily adopted HIV -- the AIDS virus -- as the cause of
    AIDS." He went on to explain the impact of the powerful promotion that
    made the AIDS hypothesis "instant national dogma". The billions of dollars in
    funding, the economic interests of the bio-technology and pharmaceutical
    companies and the tremendous notoriety from the press was too much for
    these retrovirologists to resist.

    Q: Surely there were a few independent scientists who tried to expose
    this fraud?

    A: There were, and as an example of how their dissension was squelched,
    I'll quote Dr. Joseph Sonnabend, founder of the AIDS Medical Foundation.
    His is typical of how opposition to the AIDS hypothesis was dealt with. Dr.
    Sonnabend writes "...I tried to show that HTLV-1 (HIV) was not involved
    in AIDS. All the journals refused to publish it."

  3. #3
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    After 21 years of intensive research, not one clinically-relevant retrovirus
    has ever been discovered, and by scientific standards HIV is no exception.
    You also have to understand that when Margaret Heckler, head of Health
    and Human Services [HHS], adopted HIV as the cause of AIDS, basically
    all institutions which rely on federal government funding or grants had to go
    along and cooperate or face extinction. HHS is the paymaster for all health
    departments and agencies. This includes the National Institutes of Health.

    Q: The proponents of the HIV/AIDS hypothesis, led by Dr. Gallo, dismiss
    all opposition as not being worthy of their time to openly debate. I
    understand from your book they even had the supreme audacity to boycott
    a meeting in the White House when an open discussion of the facts and
    opposing views were to be presented. Is this true?

    A: Yes, that is how they operate. These scoundrels defend their position
    by name calling and avoiding debate because they cannot support their
    position scientifically. Their followers are either ignorant of the truth or are
    going along with the lie because that's where the money is. Let me put it to
    you this way. If you knew or [were] unknowingly duped into playing a part
    in what has turned out to be the greatest genocide since Adolph Hitler,
    would you find it easy to embrace the truth and openly admit it?

    Q: What about Kimberly Bergalis {8}, and Magic Johnson?

    A: Kimberly Bergalis would still be alive today if she were not given AZT.
    Magic Johnson is probably as healthy today as he ever was and will
    continue to live a long and happy life so long as he does not take AZT or
    any other deadly drug.

    Q: Why did you innoculate yourself with the blood of an HIV positive
    hemophiliac?

    A: Because I cannot stand by and watch the profession I love be
    deceitfully used to commit murder by following the Gallo HIV/AIDS'
    death banner. I have vowed that if it is necessary I will repeat the process
    of sticking myself with the blood of an HIV positive person on television
    in every city in the world until this genocide stops. I am a physician and I
    will keep the oath I took.

    Q: Dr. Willner, in Deadly Deception you say AZT is one of the chief
    causes of AIDS. Can you elaborate further for our readers?

    A: Yes, and again I will begin by quoting Dr. Peter Duesberg [CN --
    emphasis in original]:

    "AZT is a random killer of infected and non-infected cells. AZT
    cannot discriminate among them. It kills T- cells; B-cells; red cells, it
    kills all cells. AZT is a chain terminator of DNA synthesis of all cells
    -- no exceptions. It wipes out everything. In the long run it can only
    lead to death and the cemetary. AZT is a certain killer! Who will be
    responsible for the death of patients (some 200,000 now being
    treated with AZT and countless thousands who have already died
    from it in the past decade) that results from AZT therapy --
    pharmacological homicide?"

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    The makers of AZT claim "it increases the quality of life." Yet, all one
    needs do is read the package insert that comes with AZT and you will learn
    the truth: The side effects of AZT as listed on its own package inserts are:
    Cancer (lymphomas), Hepatitis, Dementia, Mania (madness, frenzy),
    Seizures (epileptic), Anxiety, Anemia, Leukopenia (standard laboratory
    evidence of immune suppression), Impotence, Severe Nausea, Chest Pain,
    Insomnia, Ataxia (loss of balance), Depression, Muscle Atrophy (wasting),
    and this is only half of the death sentence list of side effects that AZT causes.
    Does this sound like AZT adds to the quality of life to you or does it sound
    like what it really is -- AIDS!

    Q: Are there other causes of AIDS?

    A: Yes, there are and I explain each and every known cause of AIDS in
    great detail in my book. And, may I add, not one of them is sexually
    transmitted or HIV related.

    Q: What can a person suffering from Acquired Immune Deficiency or
    AIDS do?

    A: There are actually many things a person with AIDS can do if there is
    enough time and in most cases there is. The first and most important thing is
    to get off of any type of immune suppressive drug whether it be recreational,
    prescription or over the counter, immediately. Secondly, don't be conned
    into taking AZT or any other last minute, last chance, miracle drug. If you
    are, it will most certainly prove to be your last chance at life. Thirdly, stop
    believing the lie that you are going to die. Finally, get and read a copy of my
    book Deadly Deception as soon as possible. It contains the information you
    need to strengthen your immune system. Follow what it tells you and you
    will probably be O.K.

    Notes

    {1} Much of this has long since been reported by Jon Rappoport in his 1988
    book, AIDS Inc.. I recently took some heat, by the way, for daring to post my
    synopsis of Rappoport's book. One person told me "It's o.k. to discuss political
    conspiracies. But one mustn't discuss medical conspiracies." I'll spare you the
    "reasoning" behind this.

    {2} "...the deadly drug AZT." See, for example, Poison By Prescription: The
    AZT Story by John Lauritsen (New York: Asklepios, 1990). So the scam is
    they tell you that you have got the dread HIV, then they poison you to death
    with AZT, then they bury you ASAP.

    {3} "...[innoculated] himself with the blood of... an HIV positive hemophiliac.
    " Dr. Peter Duesberg, another "AIDS heretic", has also offered to innoculate
    himself with HIV in order to underline his disbelief in current AIDS dogma.

    {4} "...the greatest fraud in medical history." Similar to Rappoport in 1988,
    "Scandal of the Century".

    {5} "...that I go into great detail explaining in my book." Note to persons, most
    notably canus lupus mortuus, who betray themselves by their over-eagerness to
    throw mud on such "heresies" as contained in this post: How about reading Dr.
    Willner's book IN ITS ENTIRETY before you start taking your cheap shots?
    Then you can say things like "Where's the documentation?" (Duh, try looking in
    the book.) and "What about such-and-such?" (Duh, try reading the book. This
    is just a condensed summation.).

    This "heresy" is not going to disappear by your throwing mud at it. In addition,
    one must wonder at the over-eagerness of supposed "debunkers" to quickly
    throw mud. If you want this "heresy" regarding HIV and AIDS to go away, you
    are going to have to come down from Mount Olympus and explain to us mere
    mortals exactly why it just ain't so. Incantations, magic dust and magic bones
    do not impress me, anyway. Logic does. If you can refute what several AIDS
    "heretics" have been saying -- THEN DO SO AND IN PLAIN ENGLISH.
    If these are, in fact, "heresies", then you ought to be able to sit down and
    carefully write a logical and understandable explanation as to why. The fact
    that, at this late date, very little in the way of a calm, careful, and reasoned
    rebuttal (not just pot shots taken at minor points) has been offered is, in itself,
    cause for alarm. If these "heresies" are easily refuted, then one must wonder
    why this hasn't been done but that, rather, cheap, bullying tactics have been
    used.

    {6} "T-lymphocytes (our white blood defensive cells)..." Note here, for example,
    how difficult terms are immediately explained. Would that some of the dogmatists
    of AIDS could do likewise.

    {7} "...is contradictory to 20 years of research findings." The interviewer adds,
    "(and I might add billions of dollars in funding)".

    {8} Kimberly Bergalis. As I recall, she was the woman in Florida who claimed
    she had contracted AIDS via her dentist -- not through sex but through just
    being a normal dental patient.

    Final note:

    This book is not yet available in bookstores. Because there may be those who
    want to get a hold of the book, because I cannot just tell them "Go to the
    library" or "Order it through a local bookstore", I am providing information
    on how to get the book. Note that I make no profit by doing so. If you can
    get this book in some other way than as follows, then fine. This information is
    provided to increase knowledge, understanding, and awareness.

  5. #5
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    WOW...that's some incredible stuff. Or should I say really credible stuff. I'm astounded.

  6. #6
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    Yeh, after 4 years studying nutrition, one big thing I've learned is that most "facts" are false; and what you "know", you must forget if you want to really learn.

  7. #7
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    I mean this is REALLY revelational, especially if it is true that AIDS cannot be aquired or at least has not been proven to be spread by intercourse.

  8. #8
    link?

  9. #9
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    Originally posted by brothernumber9
    I mean this is REALLY revelational, especially if it is true that AIDS cannot be aquired or at least has not been proven to be spread by intercourse.
    i've never heard that. I always heard you get HIV from intercourse, not aids.


    I got this in an email from aajonus venderperlitz (sp?). I dont know where he got teh article

  10. #10
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    I always heard you get HIV from intercourse (or blood transfusion, or sharing needles).

    And then HIV leads to AIDS an indefinite time later on.

    So this guy is saying that you can have AIDS without having HIV?
    "If you like metal you're my friend" -- Manowar

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  11. #11
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    Originally posted by IronFist

    And then HIV leads to AIDS an indefinite time later on.
    THAT'S what this guy is proving wrong. We are all told that once you have HIV, you WILL have aids. This guy is saying that is completely untrue.

    I really suggest reading it. Doesnt take really taht long. If you hate staring at pc screens like me, just print it out.
    Last edited by inic; 05-21-2004 at 04:28 PM.

  12. #12
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    Sounds like somebody slept with the wrong person!
    A unique snowflake

  13. #13

    Red face

    Whoa... thats whack.

    If this is true then it has major repercussions. I really don't know enough about the matter to know if what he's saying is true though.

    I'm printing this off and getting the opinion of my bio teacher.


  14. #14
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    dont take everything a teacher says as fact. Just cause they a professor, doesn't mean they know it all. And remember that people in this country only know what they are told. People here are generally told what/how to think.

    I clash with a lot of my nutrition/science prof's because of things like that. It's like people hear/read something and automatically think its true. Nobody wants to put in the effort to actually find the real knowledge for themselves.

    Even with this aids article here. I don't know if its true or not. I guarentee I could bring it to a doctor here and they'd say "oh this is false" even though they didn't read the book and other papers on it.
    Last edited by inic; 05-21-2004 at 10:22 PM.

  15. #15
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    Just cuz it's published doesn't mean it's true. I saw this hokey book that said that all diseases were caused by emotional imbalances.

    For example, it said that various STD's were caused by being insecure with your sexuality. Nevermind the fact that sleeping with infected people transfers the virus to you. It just said like "Herpes - insecurity with ones sexuality." You have to admit that's crap.
    "If you like metal you're my friend" -- Manowar

    "I am the cosmic storms, I am the tiny worms" -- Dimmu Borgir

    <BombScare> i beat the internet
    <BombScare> the end guy is hard.

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