Mantis108´s fighting clip

[-N-]

Well, I saw nothing to ridicule, and I hope my comments weren't taken as such.

Much appreciation to Mantis108 for his continual sharing with our mantis community.

N.

[B.Tunks]

N wrote:

'I saw nothing to ridicule'

Neither did I!!!

108, I read your explanation on the bounce and I understand your approach. There is no wrong or right here and what works for you is what works. As with N, I hope you dont see my comments as an attack. Originally I wasn't even going to add an opinion at all, but found myself discussing it outside the board and felt it only fair to share with you.
Keep doing your thing.

BT

[German Bai Lung]

Well, sharing a clip where one´s are fighting is a very brave job! I know that very well....

For the comments: if you see someone fighting like in this given clip, how did you come to the believing they "ONLY" fight like this all the time?

I think what we saw in the clip is one of many training-aspects to learn how to fight!

I myself uses some simular fighting for advanced. They can learn with these kind of fighting to apply mantis-techniques without doing too much harm to each other. They can learn how to apply groin attacks, locks, throatattacks etc.
For the fighting with power they have to wear gloves and a bodyshield and going fullcontact.


For the clip: it´s for all of us a great opportunity to learn from eachothers comments! But for that its more suitable to comment the techniqual side of the fight and not the decision how to fight (meaning fullcontact or techniqual or lightcontact!).

Once again: keep up the great work Robert!

[yu shan]

Gentleman,

It looks like I might have used the wrong terminology, yet again. When I post here, I only have a few moments, and I`m rushed. Will not bore you about my daily tasks. Seeing the sensitivities expressed here, I`ll try and watch every little detail of my future posts. I said nothing bad about Robert`s clip, sorry if I used the wrong word. Sometimes you guys seem wound up a bit too tight, relax, stress is really bad on your heart. Thanks Robert, saw something in the clip that I`m going to try today training in the park.

[Hua Lin Laoshi]

The clip looked good to me but I would just like to address some of Oso's comments and the perception that others might have that this is all they would be able to do in a real fight. I've said things like this in the past but here I go again.

Hardcore sparring is a both good and bad. Loading up with protective equipment allows you to train to attack hard but at the cost of getting complacent with defense. Getting hit hard with a chest protector gives the mistaken belief you could handle it in a real fight without one.

My belief is spar without a cup and you will definitely learn to protect that area. Of course my early training was with minimal protective equipment. Believe it or not I would prefer to spar with only hand gear and exhibit control with recognition of techniques. Master Dennis Decker told me (mid 70's) when he trained in China they would just tear off a piece of t-shirt sleeve, roll it up and put it across their teeth, then go at it. Personally (and this may go for others as well) I don't have a problem training light to medium contact sparring and fighting for real with full intensity.

While it may be true that some (or most) will hold back in a real fight there are others like myself that have the opposite problem.
Learning MA and control is probably the only reason I haven't done time for a violent offense because that's the path I was on before my formal training.

BTW, I'm don't mean to sound like a tough guy or bada$$. I just have a violent streak that I've had to deal with and MA training has helped tremendously. And I stopped drinking, that helped too.

[18elders]

how do you convert a video clip to be able to post it like in quicktime??

[Mr.Binx]

You would need video conversion/editing software that supports the types of files you are looking to convert. The majority of these software packages unfortunately cost a pretty penny. If you have access to a digital camera it may have come bundled with similar software. You might also be able to find a free trial for one of these applications somewhere out on the web that would allow you to use it for 30 days or whatnot. Google (or any search engine for that matter) is a good place to start. It's often easier to just find a way to view the video in it's existing format.

[18elders]

thanks for your help.
if i can figure it out i will post some clips.

[Oso]

**edit** HLL, just reread this and I hope I haven't come off antagonist. Not my intent at all, hopefully this can be a good discussion on how different people apply their art in sparring/fighting.



please refer back to my 2nd post on the thread about the important part about the clip was that it was abviously light sparring in an environment they were trying to protect.

In that context, it was a fine example.

My comments weren't really about the clip but rather a minor rant about a conundrum I feel we all face.

Hardcore sparring is a both good and bad. Loading up with protective equipment allows you to train to attack hard but at the cost of getting complacent with defense.

Only if the teacher lets it go that way. The protective gear is there to mitigate damage when a shot gets in. In-School sparring should be supervised because the intent is to preserve the art/style at high speed and contact levels. It's up to the teacher to stop and get the combatants to refocus on the basic principles of the mantis fighter. Defense is certainly one of those principles.

The other, and possible more important, aspect is that most of us are trying to run commercial schools. The safer you can spar the better all the way around.

Getting hit hard with a chest protector gives the mistaken belief you could handle it in a real fight without one.

I disagree. Again, it's the teachers responsibility to make sure the students understand what's happening.

My belief is spar without a cup and you will definitely learn to protect that area.

can't agree there either. you still know, and it still hurts, to get popped in the cup. besides, who wants a ruptured testicle. or the liability.

Of course my early training was with minimal protective equipment. Believe it or not I would prefer to spar with only hand gear and exhibit control with recognition of techniques.

mine was too for the same reason you give above. I was also 14-21 and was learning from a guy in the backyard. good training and I don't regret it a bit but dangerous.

I prefer nothing but a cup and mouthguard and someone willing to trade blows, and preferable someone who can whup my azz so I learn something.

Master Dennis Decker told me (mid 70's) when he trained in China they would just tear off a piece of t-shirt sleeve, roll it up and put it across their teeth, then go at it. Personally (and this may go for others as well) I don't have a problem training light to medium contact sparring and fighting for real with full intensity.

That may be true now but what about early on in your career?


And to restate the opening gambit:

Intent.

Knowing you might get hit hard changes the game. You will revert to the simplest thing you know that works for you.

Light/medium sparring is good for the next phase past 1 step drills. You get a chance to perfect your gou lou tsai as Robert shows us. But if you never try that on a full speed/power attack then you can't possibly know how you are going to be able to do it when it matters.

[puja]

18elders,
if you're on a windows-system you can get a free copy of an older version of TMPGEnc at http://www.tmpgenc.net/e_main2.html
With this software you can encode Clips into MPEG-format (1 or 2) so you could easily put them on VCDs, S-VCDs or even DVDs or share it on the net. As every System (Linux, Windows, Mac) usually knows how to playback such files you won't encounter problems with sharing your clips.
If you want to spend some money you can also get the new Version of TMPGEnc (3.0 Express) which is a bit more userfriendly and supports more formats or for example Discreet Cleaner which I haven't tested yet.
If you need more detailed info i.e. on how to use the converter you can get in contact with me directly, as this thread isn't about how to encode clips.

best regards,

puja

[18elders]

thanks for your help! hopefully i can post some things soon.
I appreciate it.

[mantis108]

I am really taken by the support of everyone. Truely, I am very touched by all the help and the comments. My special acknowledgement to Jochen who has graciously offered to host the clip. I don't think there is any bad comments here. BTW, I understand Yu Shan meant no ill intention whatsoever. I would like to thank him for the inputs. Thank you my friend.

I would think All the questions asked are golden oppotunities to reach out for the different perspectives and understanding. More importantly, this thread really makes me feel like I am among the most friendliest martial art crowd in the whole wide world. You guys are great. I am very please that we have pretty much a broad range of Mantis stylists participating. Let's keep the good momentum going. People such as David, Brendan and Hua Lin who rarely speak up are chiming in. This makes it quite a special occassion for me. Thanks guys.

The technical analysis are much appreciated. I definitely am taking note of those.

I believe Oso brought up a great point about the transition of light to full contact sparring. I believe it basically boils down to that we need to switch between training intensity. This is done with each training intensity reinforces each other in mind. This direction, I think most of us are doing or heading towards. BTW, the business license and whole price for MA equipment is a brilliant suggestion. Thanks

The 2 approaches that he mentioned are both very valid. I am more inclined for the latter. This is the reason why I am having the ground phase early in the program. I believe for a fighting system to remain healthy and strong, we as the practitioners should stay current with the latest "fighting trend". Having said that I don't think we need to achieve that at the expense of the integrity of our styles. As most of you would have noted that techniques such as go lu tsai, can easily be put into test with a live resistive opponent.

One thought that I have so far is that I hope through this disscussion we will be letting go some of the uneasy feeling of posting our work especially in video format. This way we can truely enjoy each others 'company'. As we come to an understanding that we are here to help each other out. We are indeed amongst one of the most open minded MA community.

I look forward for more video sharing from everyone.18 Elders, I hope to see your work soon. I also look forward for YuShan's findings on the thing that he's testing out. It would be great if it is on film as well. Please give us an update soon. Thanks

You guys are the best!

Sincerely,

Robert

PS To those who are attending Shrfu Shr's seminar, I hope you'll all have a great time and learn plenty from this great master and rare opportunity (God knows, I envy you guys). Have fun!

[sayloc]

Hua lin,

Is the Dennis Decker you are speaking of from the Chi lin school?

If it is I would like to get some info about his school.

Thanks

[Hua Lin Laoshi]

Oso,
I may have come off sounding like I'm against full equipment sparring. I'm not. I just like to point out that you shouldn't neglect the less gear/light contact benefits. The common belief is that if you train light to medium contact you will hold back in a real fight because that's how you're used to fighting. Personally I don't find that to be true. I trained light/medium contact (even no contact to the head) and still beat the crap out of people in the street.

Full protection allows you to ignore some of the hits you're taking giving a false sense of body conditioning. Your mind is off defense since you're 'protected' and you neglect to properly defend. Then you get hit in the street, it hurts like hell and the fight is over. The hit you can take and fight through in class with gear on is the one that will drop you in the street.

Great for offensive training but you should also drop the gear and go light for the defensive training. All you hear anymore is hard hard hard. Too much yang. All sun makes a desert.

I realise my opinion doesn't mesh with everyone else and popular teaching but I throw it out for discussion anyhow. Spar without gear and I bet your strategy changes completely. You won't have the gear crutch that lets you be the tough aggressive fighter you like to be. No more superman, just a regular guy that gets hurt when you hit him.

Guess I'm just old fashion.

[Hua Lin Laoshi]

sayloc
Yes, it's the same Dennis Decker. Someone else recently brought up his name on this forum. I can't tell you anything about his school. I knew him in the '70s when he taught a little at the Kenpo school where I was training. He seems to have built quite a following after that.

Chi Lin is basically Kenpo which is Chuan Fa (Fist Way or Fist Method), Chinese Kung Fu as handed down to Japan. Pai Lum is another example of Kenpo trying to get back to their Chinese roots.

Personally I think Kenpo gets a bad rap, but then I'm a little biased.


BTW Oso, I've seen your pictures. Maybe I do want gear. Ha!