Cowardice vs. Sheeplike stupidity

[Phrost]

If you don't like fighting, then give me one, rational reason why you practice punching and kicking?

Just one.

And please refer to my initial post above for non-reasons.

[edited to add:]

Seriously, YODA?

You get out much?

[Phrost]

Originally posted by Banjos_dad
Nothing is wrong with a _______ ("fighter," "martial artist,""warrior,") choosing not to serve a purpose he rejects. Aside from contractual obligation.
There are things I wouldn't fight for.

Piszing contest between two childish leaders: no.
Repelling invasion at home: gladly.

Someone telling me to give them my wallet & cell: go time.

Nothing wrong with chosing your battles. I'm arguing against people who spend years learning how to hurt other people (punching, kicking, etc) who are completely against using violence as a means to resolve a conflict. It just doesn't follow.

[Meat Shake]

Wow.
This thread seemed interesting but derailed increadibly quickly.
You are trying to equate too many different things that dont equate.

"If you're anti-war, that's fine. Just don't ever claim to be a warrior."

War has little to do with being a warrior.
Warrior n One who is engaged aggressively or energetically in an activity, cause, or conflict: EX: neighborhood warriors fighting against developers.

Cited from dictionary.com

Now onto the trying to equate not wanting to kill someone and practicing martial arts... War has little to do with punching and kicking, and a lot more to do with shooting, stabbing, and from what I understand quite a bit of rape and robbery if you're american. Practicing martial arts for me was something I just wanted to do... I was popular in school, I scored a 1380 on the SAT, I frequent the library and barnes and nobles, and I not only know where the good clubs are, but I know quite a few club owners.
Right now this thread is basically breaking down and trying to explain stereotypes...

"I'm arguing against people who spend years learning how to hurt other people (punching, kicking, etc) who are completely against using violence as a means to resolve a conflict. "

Thats not what this thread is about. It was started as an explanation as to why its not cowardice to not fight another mans war, and to not kill in another mans name. Unless my family or close friends are involved, and there is no other choice, I do not justify killing by any means. That doesnt mean I dont enjoy a good full contact sparring match, and it definately doesnt mean I am afraid to fight. I just dont agree with shooting a man Ive never met for reasons Im still unsure of.

[Phrost]

Originally posted by Meat Shake
Wow.
This thread seemed interesting but derailed increadibly quickly.
You are trying to equate too many different things that dont equate.

"If you're anti-war, that's fine. Just don't ever claim to be a warrior."

War has little to do with being a warrior.
Warrior n One who is engaged aggressively or energetically in an activity, cause, or conflict: EX: neighborhood warriors fighting against developers.

Cited from dictionary.com

You also conveniently left out the PRIMARY definition of Warrior for the alegorical one, which was:

"One who is engaged in or experienced in battle."

In this case, the second definition is irrelevant, as the Martial arts, by definition are war arts. We're not talking figuratively about neighborhood crusaders. We're talking literally about punching and kicking.

Originally posted by Meat Shake

Now onto the trying to equate not wanting to kill someone and practicing martial arts... War has little to do with punching and kicking,

It does now, because of technology. 200 years ago in China, punching and kicking were part of the core skills warriors learned. (*cough* martial arts *cough*)

Originally posted by Meat Shake

and a lot more to do with shooting, stabbing, and from what I understand quite a bit of rape and robbery if you're american. Practicing martial arts for me was something I just wanted to do... I was popular in school, I scored a 1380 on the SAT, I frequent the library and barnes and nobles, and I not only know where the good clubs are, but I know quite a few club owners.
Right now this thread is basically breaking down and trying to explain stereotypes...

I scored a 1440 on my SAT, and served 7+ years in the Army as a SGT. I also know a bit more about modern warfare than you do, by a large margin.

Originally posted by Meat Shake

"I'm arguing against people who spend years learning how to hurt other people (punching, kicking, etc) who are completely against using violence as a means to resolve a conflict. "

Thats not what this thread is about. It was started as an explanation as to why its not cowardice to not fight another mans war, and to not kill in another mans name. Unless my family or close friends are involved, and there is no other choice, I do not justify killing by any means. That doesnt mean I dont enjoy a good full contact sparring match, and it definately doesnt mean I am afraid to fight. I just dont agree with shooting a man Ive never met for reasons Im still unsure of.

Go back and re-read the first post of this thread. You're completely wrong.

Here's the first sentence:

"All of you who say that those of us martial artists who don't want to fight in war are cowards need to understand a few key points."

It didn't state "this" or "any unjust" war. It stated "war".

And guess what? If you chose to be a citizen of a particular country, in a Democracy in particular, if you're called to serve your country and chose to run instead, you ARE a coward AND a traitor.

Just because the scale of community is much greater (country vs family) doesn't invalidate your selfish disregard for helping protect your way of life. At the very least, anyone who runs from a draft and then choses to return to their home country should not be allowed to benefit from public services because they weren't willing to fight to preserve them (regardless of whether or not they PERSONALLY felt it was in their country's interest).

Yes, if you run from your duty as a citizen then you are a coward. And if you're a martial artist who runs, you're even lower on the sh*t scale, for pretending to play war in the dojo, that might not be there if it weren't for the sacrifices put down by men and women better than you.

[Shaolinlueb]

i didnt take my SAT's, my forms are good, my fighting sucks, i dont get chicks, i go to the same two lame nightclubs they have in our area, i dont get chicks. im only popular with people in the ages 5-10 age bracket.....



okay nm.

[JMantisSmurf]

hey

i come from a family of marines, many who served in nam, so i understand where frost is coming from. but no one asked to be born whereever they are.
"when the bullets starty flying all that political BS goes right out the winow... you shoot back"
i grew up in not the nicest neighbrohood of chicago, and i learned man's strongest instinct is survival. if anyone threatens me or thing i care about, be it an invading army or a midnight mugger, i have absolutely no problem defending myself, even killing if that is what is required. if you arn't ready to do that you arn't ready to live. we all have to kill to survive it is how the world works.
oh yeah made a 1320 on the SAt's high GPA, just got a scholarship to U of I and i do have a life (did i mention i was a dancer/singer/actor?)
"adventure. Ha! exitement. Ha! a jedi craves not these things."

[CaptinPickAxe]

Martial arts is also for protection, not just aggression. If I recall, Shaolin Monks took up martial arts to PROTECT the temple, not wage war with other temples. Then again, its all hearsay.

[JMantisSmurf]

yes but didnt alot of them get dead

[JMantisSmurf]

this thread souds strangely like the one about the draft
ring bells anyone??

JMS

[CaptinPickAxe]

get dead?
Yes, but my point being that not all MA's were created as a tool to destroy, but also protect.

[Xebsball]

"fu.ck you i wont do what you tell me
fu.ck you i wont do what you tell me
fu.ck you i wont do what you tell me

killing in the name of
killing in the name of"



my sugestion is
if the system is stupid
hack the system like i did, kids

and to choose not to fight is NOT cowardice

and
i
pi.ss
on
the
draft
and
its supporters

[T'ai Ji Monkey]

If you are Solider you fight the war in front of you, there is NO choosing which war to fight or not.

The people that got this choice are called MERCENARIES.

Said that there are many reasons why People practice and study MA this is true for now and days gone by.
But once you made the decision to be a warrior/soldier your options are limited in choosing when and who to fight.

[The Willow Sword]

I will say that "martial arts" are NOT about getting in to a ring and going after some other guy in the ring and pummeling his head in or him choking you out"
"Martial arts" are NOT about dressing up in some stupid spandex outfit and taking anabolic steroids and playing a heavy metal song as you walk out in to a crowd of low life white trash screaming for you to kick his a$$"
Martial Arts is not about some Noodle brained jock douche bag gloating over how well he can beat the sh!t out of someone else and thinking that those of us who have some substance to our lives and refuse to be a part of it are pu$$ies.
Martial arts are a sacred discipline and fighting is not ALL martial arts are about.

i swear this country's mentality is about a mile wide and an inch deep.


PEACE,,,TWS

[YinYangDagger]

I suppose different folks get different things out of MA. The only reason I do any martial art is to find better and more efficient ways to take someone out. Period.

Regardless of all the bantering and "words" written here, you'll never change my mind regarding what I feel about draft dodgers. They're cowards. I guess it all comes down to me giving up a Baylor University scholarship out of high school to go the Marines. Two years later I was in Kuwait. I regret none of it.

I tried to be nice when the rape thing came up the last time. Now I won't. There's an old saying pertaining to warfare: TO THE VICTORS GO THE SPOILS. Tragic? Perhaps. Better them than us.

And MST, if you read this, I'm inclined to go ahead and agree with you: I'm beginning to LIKE Phrost more and more.

[Phrost]

Originally posted by The Willow Sword
Martial arts are a sacred discipline and fighting is not ALL martial arts are about.

i swear this country's mentality is about a mile wide and an inch deep.


PEACE,,,TWS

A sacred discipline involving punching and kicking? Does that make you feel less guilty about what you do, or is it just the marketing spin you fell for?

Yoga is a sacred discipline, if that could be said about anything. Training to hurt other people (which, SHOCKER, is what punching and kicking does), is only sacred in religions that explicitly espouse violence. Fortunately for society, such religions aren't very common.

Something is deep around here, and it's definately more than an inch. I'm breaking out the hip waders.

And YYD, it's just that straight shooters tend to be so few and far between that eventually they'll ignore any petty differences to agree on the bigger issues.

I'd say cowardice is a pretty big issue.

And Xebsball, grow up dude. Rage Against the Machine is so 1990's. They're a much better band now that they're not whining about "The Man" holding them down.

The fact is, if you expect to benefit from public services (driving on public roads, going to public schools, using public parks and property), then you have an obligation to support the public interest as dictated by your democratically elected government.

Otherwise, get the F**K out of my country and stay gone. We don't need cowards like you pi$$ing in our gene pool anyway.