Double Weightedness

[joedoe]

I am sure that this has probably been discussed before, but I was wondering what is meant by double weightedness. I have heard this term used in IMA circles but have never been able to get a clear definition of the concept. I know this should probably go into the IMA forum, but I thought I might get a better response here. Any help would be appreciated.

[Christopher M]

One of the 'somatic ideas' in the internal martial arts, most frequently discussed in the context of taijiquan, is certain ways of using the parts of the body characterized as yin or yang (eg. empty or full). Double-weightedness is when paired parts of the body are not distributed as yin and yang (eg. they are both full).

A more practical way of thinking about this is that in double-weightedness there is not a clear structure (peng) path through your body (and to the thing your body is in contact with).

[T'ai Ji Monkey]

Joedoe.

I think your quickest option might read through the previous threads in the IMA section, many links and quotations in those Posts.

The way I see double weightness is an abstract concept that means that your execution is flawed and does not follow IMA principles. Movement not rounded, movement stopping/starting, etc.

The TJQ classics are written in a semi-cryptic style and certain concepts/writings can only be understood at certain stages in your IMA training.

Many seem to think it has to do with avoiding a 50/50 weight distribution but as Chen Xiao Wang replied:
"If it was that easy than it would not have taken me years to get rid of it."

"One Master once said that even the small finger can be double weighted".

Hope this helps.

[joedoe]

Interesting. My first impression was that it was about weight distribution but the other concepts make a lot more sense. Thanks for that, it has given me something to ponder.

If anyone else has anything to add, please do so.

[count]

The simple idea is when you over extend yourself beyond the point of no return you can be easily pulled/pushed off balance. In other words, your weight can be used against you.

Your weight x your weight = wieght2

Now the tricky part how do you find the balance between yin and yang. Intent can balance momentum too.

[Christopher M]

Originally posted by joedoe
Interesting. My first impression was that it was about weight distribution...

It's not not about weight distribution though, eh?

[joedoe]

Originally posted by Christopher M


It's not not about weight distribution though, eh?

True, but I guess my initial impression was that it is pretty much all about the weight distribution in the stance but it appears to be deeper than that

[T'ai Ji Monkey]

Originally posted by joedoe

True, but I guess my initial impression was that it is pretty much all about the weight distribution in the stance but it appears to be deeper than that

It also depends at which style you are looking at.

Chen TJQ does have 50/50 weighted stances Yang TJQ and it's off-shoots don't. Even though they naturally when shifting weight have the 50/50 atleast for a fraction of a second.

Most of the well-known and translated TJQ classics were written by Yang and Wu stylists.

IME, I found Chens stylists using less of the TJQ terms than the Yang stylists I encountered, more of a do and don't talk attitude.

Back to double weightness I see it more like an Onion as different layers are peeled away new aspects and insights will become available.

Some people describe double weighted as both feet touching the ground at the same time or both hands striking at the same time. Interpreting one hand and one foot as meaning single weightedness. This is too physical an explanation and may lead to misunderstanding. Mind is everything! Whether there is an appearance of single weighted or double-weightedness is not a matter of outer appearance but of energetic feeling. Sagging overly bent legs and pressured feet are hardly light.

He talks about double weighted movements. But not only does he mean
that we should not stand with the weight placed evenly upon both feet, but
also that we should not have equal Qi in the hands, elbows, shoulders,
hips, knees. This can be taken even further to each of the six organ pairs
where we should also not have double weightedness. It goes even deeper
into that the sub-conscious and the conscious should also not be double
weighted!

[Fu-Pow]

If you look at the characters the term is translated from it means something slightly different. "Double weightedness" is a poor translation to begin with.

It means something more like "mutual resisting" ie force on force.

External muscular force on force is one of the big no-nos of internal training.

[Christopher M]

Originally posted by joedoe
...it is pretty much all about the weight distribution in the stance but it appears to be deeper than that...

There's an appendix on double-weighting in Tim Cartmell's Effortless Combat Throws that you might wanna flip through in Chapters or something. The book itself is quite good as well.