Ranges?...

[old jong]

Another thing we hear about all the times by the "conceptual" specialists(are you one of them?)Is ranges!...We already talked about the "trapping" range.There is also the Kicking range and the grappling range! Do we really need to train in three different styles to perform well in all "ranges"?...I believe(IMO)that wing chun knows only one "range"...The fighting range!...What do you think?

C'est la vie!

[Martial Joe]

I think what you think,in this matter...

[rogue]

I agree Old Jong. There are two ranges, in range and out of range.

"conceptual" specialists, that's a good one! :D

Adventure is just a romantic name for trouble. It sounds swell when you write about it, but it's hell when you meet it face to face in a dark and lonely place.
Louis L'Amour

[Armin]

Hi Old Jong!

I think the "three or four distances"-concept is just a tool for beginners, to make them understand the different needs of different distances.

In fact the principles and movements are the same in all distances.


Armin.

[kungfu cowboy]

While I do agree that there is too much preoccupation with ranges of fighting, I believe that there are styles that are based on principles that are most effective in a certain, ah..."distance from opponent". ;) Let's take wing chun for example. IMO, wing chun's unique way of generating striking power is dependent upon being rather close to the opponent.

Since the strikes do not use muscle power, and it is usually desired to not shift the shoulders (too much)from neutral, you must rely on physics to produce a powerful strike. Also affecting this are the other WC principles of guarding the centerline, relaxation, etc.

So how do you gain mechanical advantage here? By delivering your strikes from extreme close range, making up for the use of a "shorter" amount of arm length used, which when coupled with proper rooting (and a bunch of physics I won't embarrass myself with trying to explain)really packs a wallop! If you were to try using these priciples on a opponent at arms length from you, WC methods are not optimized.

[jameswebsteruk]

I dont think that the moves you do are the same at longer range. If I try to pak an opponents left arm with my left at close range, I can control his right elbow with my pak-ing arm. If I am at long range, there is every chance he will hit me with his right, because I have no contact.

[rogue]

You can always, well almost always, change the "range".

Adventure is just a romantic name for trouble. It sounds swell when you write about it, but it's hell when you meet it face to face in a dark and lonely place.
Louis L'Amour

[wingchunner]

I do think it is important to train at different 'ranges'. I have found that my students, especially if they didn't have previous martial arts training didn't know how to close the gap outside of the 'kicking' range. They tended to want to fight and were too greedy with their techniques which left them vulnerable and exposed sometimes, instead of relaxing and being in control of themselves and using proper technique.

I encourage my students to go to tournaments. I don't really care if they win or not, that's not the point. (There's too much politics anyway) The point is to see how they handle themselves in a somewhat more stressful situation. Then, they should analyze how they did...

Was I in control of myself? Did I stick with Wing Chun techniques or did I revert to boxing or a former styles methods? Did I stay rooted? Did the other person feel rooted or was I able to move them? If they got a strike in, did it penetrate or was it just a surface hit? Did I chase hands or focus on the opponent's center?

Obviously the more experienced students answer these questions better than the less experienced students. But, I believe the experience of the tournament is valuable.

Marty

Be true and loving.
http://wingchun.ereasons.net

[jameswebsteruk]

I know what you mean about the tournaments, we are also encouraged to go, just for the practice. And if the judging is biased, or points valued over solid hits and structure, then at least you know as long as your teacher is happy, you have fought well.

[kungfu cowboy]

Shouldn't wing chun rock at tournaments since it is a superior fighting method?

[Watchman]

What kind of tournaments are you talking about? Point sparring?!

[kungfu cowboy]

What kind are you?

[Watchman]

I don't know........I'm confused. I think I will go hug my mook jong until I feel better. :confused: :cool:

[rogue]

You are a sick man. :p

Adventure is just a romantic name for trouble. It sounds swell when you write about it, but it's hell when you meet it face to face in a dark and lonely place.
Louis L'Amour

[kungfu cowboy]

Andrew "Dice" Clay does wing chun? :confused: